Author Topic: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 103760 times)

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F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 05, 2012, 07:22:19 PM »
Hi folks,

A thread dedicated to your Lockheed Martin F-35 ideas and inspiration.

To start, something silly:  Since it seems the only kit of the aircraft in 1/48 are various iterations of the PANDA MODELS kit.




How about an F-35 in a "panda" scheme.




Regards,

Greg
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 07:22:57 PM »
Speaking of F-35 Whiffs, here's one straight out of the box:

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Stargazer2006

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 07:52:30 PM »
Here's the Lockheed Martin YF-45A Starbolt, a small fighter derived from the F-35...




And here is the QF-35D, an unmanned variant of the basic F-35.



Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2012, 10:45:18 AM »
F-22 style fins:





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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 11:49:38 AM »
I like that kind of subtle change - would have people scratching their heads knowing something was wrong, but not quite sure just what...
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 01:12:42 PM »
The QF-35 isn't that far off.   Replace the cockpit with another equipment bay and that pain of a canopy with an access panel and you've got it.  The "pilot's associate" that's part of the baseline design takes it lot closer to a UCAV than most designs are.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 08:41:44 AM »
A F-35A derivative that could be done in RL if there was demand would have either dual mode flying boom or probe and drogue in-flight refueling capability or just probe and drogue for those nations without flying boom tankers.

Offline ChrisF

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 12:22:24 AM »
I was considering a "Panda" scheme for something in my stash.... A permanant winter scheme basically, When i get around to it... Possibly sometime in the next ten years i still might :D

Offline simmie

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What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 09:38:03 AM »
With the US budget deficite the way it is and the size of cuts being planned, the F-35 is now in very real danger of being culled.

So, who will order what to furfill the outstanding requirements????

For the first suggestion, how about the HAL Tejas for the Fleet Air Arm!?!?!

Any other ideas!???
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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 10:40:33 AM »
(very carefully making comment on the F-35... :icon_ninja:) A year or so ago, Joe (TSR) asked me to do a run of 'alternate F-35' profile options.  These included JAS-39s and F/A-18Es.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 12:45:59 PM »
(very carefully making comment on the F-35... :icon_ninja:) A year or so ago, Joe (TSR) asked me to do a run of 'alternate F-35' profile options.  These included JAS-39s and F/A-18Es.

Would USAF "Super Bugs" have been on that list?  'Twould seem an obvious approach.  I could also see further F-15 and F-16 developments incorporating appropriate low observables technology (for the F-15, perhaps a step beyond the Silent Eagle) and whatever systems and technology they could from the F-35 (for example, a new block of the F-16 with the F-35's engine and the JIST inlet adapted for production and the requisite airflow).

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 03:52:07 PM »
With the US budget deficite the way it is and the size of cuts being planned, the F-35 is now in very real danger of being culled.

*Real World Mode On* Sorry to disappoint some, but there is absolutely NO chance of the F-35 being culled!  Anyone who seriously thinks this will happen doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.*Real World Mode Off*

Now in the fantasy whiff-verse:

Options to play with, in various iterations:

F/A-18E/F and developments thereof ( see what was offered to India recently)
F-15E and warmed over developments such as the Silent Eagle
Raffle
Typhoon
Su30/35
Su-?? (T-50)
F-16 developments
JAS-39E/F and developments
UCAVs
...

Regards,

Greg


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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 04:34:08 PM »
F-18E and F-18F in USAF markings instead of more lawn darts. 
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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 09:06:17 PM »
Evan, I did do a couple of Es and one F Super Bugs in USAF markings but they were for another request.

Greg, one could suggest there have been many times throughout history where 'definite' things haven't happened regardless of all intentions.  Time will tell obviously and I suspect at least the CTOL variants will enter service, but to say definitely is brave.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline LemonJello

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 09:28:19 PM »
Odds are in the F-35s favor, since jets are sexy, but you never know. The only thing harder to kill than a jet program is probably a ship program.

Marines will still be riding in the old tuna boats since the EFV got the axe. (no, not bitter about that at all...)

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2012, 09:46:43 PM »
... options looked at by the Finnish Ilmavoimat as probable legacy F.18C/D Hornet replacements were the Saab Gripen NG, Boeing F.18E Super Hornet and Lockheed's F.35A Lightning. The F.35A has been provisionally chosen altho the Russians have recently offered the Indian backed Sukhoi T.50 'Fitbird' for the same unit price as the Lockheed aircraft ! unfortunately a long shot (aka. not a snowballs chance !) but the lure of an F.22 Raptor equivalent coming onto the export market is an interesting development indeed, i know the Finnish delegation which evaluated the proposals came away very impressed !

John prepared some really neat artwork showing the possible contenders in Finnish markings for a little speculative piece i put together for an article on the F.35 decision

hmm, i agree it (probably) wont be cancelled (altho i can foresee a definate reduction in numbers) but  what happens when the F.35C gets delayed now that the UK. has dropped the STOVL. F.35B ? we already have one carrier going straight into mothballs prior to modification as it was planned for the initial type, the second vessel being optimised for the CTOL. carrier version !
Typhoon is a definate nono due to its internal structure not being suitable for carrier type operations, so i guess the possibility is either the F.18E Super Hornet or Dassault Rafale M as interim (or replacement) equipment. The UK. already has pilots on exchange both in the US. and France potentially covering both options

cheers, Joe

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 01:00:22 AM »

Typhoon is a definate nono due to its internal structure not being suitable for carrier type operations, so i guess the possibility is either the F.18E Super Hornet or Dassault Rafale M as interim (or replacement) equipment. The UK. already has pilots on exchange both in the US. and France potentially covering both options

cheers, Joe
Joe:  I thought I'd read somewhere that the Eurofighter folks had already deisigned a navalised version of the jet?  Is that so?

Greg:  If I'm ever cynical about anything, it's defence procurement!  And I have a sneaking suspicion that, what with loads of countries paying towards the development costs of the jet, the unit price will strangely end up being too high for anyone but the USA to afford...

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2012, 01:32:54 AM »
... as far as im led to understand there were feasibility studies carried out a few years back and again recently (re an Indian Navy requirement) a few drawings of a proposed revised undercarriage arrangement have been posted online from the original study, there was also a neat painting from AVPRO showing a naval Typhoon with arrestor hook and twin nosewheels widely circulated at the time of the go ahead for the new Royal Navy CVF.
From a colleague working on the type, Typhoon itself would have to be redesigned completely to take the stresses of an arrested landing as normal practice. The Dassault Rafale was designed from the outset with a 'keel' giving a very stong longitudinal structure wheras the Typhoon's strength is laterally, and when originally proposed there was no need for a naval mission requirement so was never seen as an issue

Its interesting to note the F.35C has had recent problems re arrested landings, the whole mounting having to be resited aft as the previous position was deemed unsuitable, unfortunately again this will probably encrue further strengthening in the resited area to cope with increased airframe stresses

cheers, Joe

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2012, 02:01:50 AM »
Ah, cheers mate - I thought I'd heard about that somewhere - though the article never mentoned 'complete redesign'!

Have to say, the Rafale is a beautiful, highly capable jet - I think it would be an excellent choice for the FAA.

Alternatively, both the Aussies and the Canadians, our Commonwealth partners, and not least the US Forces, use F-18 variants, so would it be better for us to maintain commonality with our 'main allies'?

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2012, 03:11:15 AM »
Anything other than a French Rafale is about to become a permanent what-if as the
French government is ready to pull the plug on the production line. Evidently they
are tired of keeping the program going only for Dassault's benefit. So Dassault
better make an overseas sale PDQ.

One wonders if the Rafale is the aviation equivalent of the Citroen DS:
fun to drive
great to look at
technically and technologically advanced
reliable engine

an absolute nightmare to maintain and operate on a regular basis
expensive to own (see above)
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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2012, 03:49:30 AM »
Yep, the last chance for the Rafale is the current Indian contest.  I suspect that it will go th the Typhoon though.

Based upon my own experience (and those of colleagues) I would definitely back up the nightmare to maintain issue too.  Not trying to sound anti-French (it is after all, a beautiful design, like many of theirs), but the sustainment support from French companies has left an awful lot to be desired when compared to some of their US competitors.
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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2012, 03:55:51 AM »
I'd place my money on a russian machine for India.  ;)

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2012, 04:07:38 AM »
Already rejected.  The competition is down to either the Rafale or Typhoon.
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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 04:15:37 AM »
Just for the fun of it...



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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 04:26:30 AM »
We all know i am very pro F-35 and Greg and I are in the same mode. I am not going to get too "real world" on the F-35 (that's for another for another time)  :icon_music:

...But I will say, we need to think "more outside the box!!" We aren't being whiffy enough about this! Stop worrying about more of the same old Super bugs with USAF instead of USN. Lets think "new design" because if the F-35 gets canceled, its need for 21st century missions still exists.

Its going to need to be stealthy and with advanced sensors.

Redoing or rehashing a teen fighter means serious expense and development to the point that you might as well start anew.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 05:40:45 AM by taiidantomcat »
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