Claymore's AH AFVs: Take 2

[Claymore]

FV603 Saracen Update:

No scratch building... What a joy!!!

Straight on to the undercoat...

[Old Wombat]

No scratch building... What a joy!!!

Who are you? And what have you done to our Claymore? 


In other news:

It's nice to see you enjoying a simple OoB build! 

Always fun ... Until the dreaded AWMS* kicks in. 



[*: AWMS - Advanced Whif Modeller's Syndrome]

[Claymore]

No scratch building... What a joy!!!

Who are you? And what have you done to our Claymore? 


In other news:

It's nice to see you enjoying a simple OoB build! 

Always fun ... Until the dreaded AWMS* kicks in. 



[*: AWMS - Advanced Whif Modeller's Syndrome]

  I have him locked in the basement! 

I know what you mean - the temptation to add mechanical legs to my Saracen build is almost unbearable! 

[Buzzbomb]

I know what you mean - the temptation to add mechanical legs to my Saracen build is almost unbearable! 

There are limits to what is allowed on Classic Military Vehicles 

Really keen to see this build happen out of the box, almost real time as well. I am so keen to get my hands on this kit, so this is just a huge tease.

[Old Wombat]

I know what you mean - the temptation to add mechanical legs to my Saracen build is almost unbearable! 

If you put mechanical legs on a Saracen, does that make it a Scarab? 





[We'll quietly ignore the 1990's developed Alvis 4x4 Recce Vehicle of the same name.]

[GTX_Admin]

 

[Frank3k]

Beautiful OTB Saracen! Airfix should hire you - or give you a few free kits - in exchange for the free advertising; I wasn't planning on getting one, but now I am as soon as it makes it over to the US.

[Claymore]

There are limits to what is allowed on Classic Military Vehicles 

Really keen to see this build happen out of the box, almost real time as well. I am so keen to get my hands on this kit, so this is just a huge tease.

I’m sure that folks will be able to do great things with all the beautiful internal detail too.  For this build, it’s enough for me just to know it’s in there! 

If you put mechanical legs on a Saracen, does that make it a Scarab? 

[We'll quietly ignore the 1990's developed Alvis 4x4 Recce Vehicle of the same name.]

 

Beautiful OTB Saracen! Airfix should hire you - or give you a few free kits - in exchange for the free advertising; I wasn't planning on getting one, but now I am as soon as it makes it over to the US.

High praise indeed - you are most kind…

[Claymore]

I usually like to make a 3D line of the project I am undertaking, one, to give me an idea of what is and isn't possible scale-wise and two, to give me a rough plan to work from when scaled to 1/35.

Example of my Tracked Sky Sabre:


Sometime, however, I just like to draw up random ideas to see if it piques my interest and occasionally, I get asked to draw up someone else's ideas from a TL they are working on - all are great sources of inspiration.  This is one such effort produced for one of the forum members of my thread on the Alternatehistory.com site...

I added a bit of a backstory to give credibility to the design. The important design requirements were that it be based off of the Cromwell series of AFVs and that it mounted a QF 28 pdr main gun (a RL experimental gun). Normally, I would only do a side and front elevation drawing but, as I got into the groove, I decided a plan and rear elevation would be fun to do.

Backstory
As the Allied advance closed in on Germany, the likelihood of encountering significant heavy fortifications increased and, consequently, the need for an armoured vehicle capable of breaching those same fortifications was never far from the minds of the Allied Commanders. The Churchill was a good infantry support tank but its somewhat obsolete design severely limited its potential for upgrading and, in particular, its limited firepower. Several attempts had been made during 1942-43 to produce a heavy tank but all had meat with limited success, outright failure or were stuck on the drawing board.

In late 1943, in a fit of desperation, the Tank Design Board commissioned the Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company (BRC&WC) to design a heavy based on the hull of their A30 Challenger/Avenger. The new tank (designated A40 Coniston) was to incorporate only existent technologies in order to limit production delays but would have the authority to dip into any and all on-going design projects. Other than the basic hull, the only other specified design criterion was that it should carry the QF 28 pdr as the desired weapon for its intended assault function.

To the purists, the end result was a bit of a ‘cobble pot’ affair but, the Coniston was, nevertheless, ready for field testing within the year – an achievement unheard off in the annuls of British tank design.

A40 Coniston   
Type:                        Heavy Assault Tank
Place of Origen:         United Kingdom
Service History   
In service:                 1944-1946
Used by:                    United Kingdom
Wars:                        World War 2
Production History   
Designer:                   Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company
Manufacturer:             English Electric
Produced:                   1944
No built:                     12
Specifications   
Mass:                        50t
Length:                      Hull only 7.37m (24’ 2”), with gun forward 9.03m (29’ 7.5”)
Width:                       3.37m (11’)
Height:                      2.88m (9’ 5”)
Crew:                        5 (Commander, gunner, loader, driver, co-driver)
Armour:                     50-140mm (2.0-5.5”)
Main armament:        QF 28 pdr, 94mm (3.7”) rifled gun; 72 rounds carried
Secondary armament: 2 x 7.92mm Besa machine guns
Engine:                       Rolls Royce Meteor 4B 650hp (480kW) at 2550rpm
Power/weight:             13hp/t (9.2kW/t)
Suspension:                Modified Horstmann
Ground clearance:       0.5m (1’ 8”)
Operational range:      100km (62.5mi)
Maximum speed:        36km/h (22.5mph)

Drawing design breakdown   
Upper hull:                A30 Challenger/Avenger
Lower hull:                A45/FV201 Universal Tank (later became FV214 Conqueror)
Front hull:                 A34 Comet
Rear hull:                  A30 Avenger and A45/FV201 Universal Tank
Suspension:              A45/FV201 Universal Tank
Roadwheels:              A45/FV201 Universal Tank
Tracks & front idler:    A41 Centurion
Turret:                       A43 Black Prince
Main gun:                  A43 Black Prince stretched to QF 28 pdr dimensions

[Old Wombat]

"Cobble pot" is an understatement! 

There is this:



A tad smaller than your Frankensteinian monster! 

[Claymore]

"Cobble pot" is an understatement! 

There is this:



A tad smaller than your Frankensteinian monster! 

Yup, but you probably wouldn’t want to be attacking the Westwall in that open-topped coupé! 😳 🤣

[Old Wombat]

They're Canadians, they probably would, you know, they're almost as insane as Aussies! 

[Claymore]

They're Canadians, they probably would, you know, they're almost as insane as Aussies! 

 

[Claymore]

FV603 Saracen Update:

The last in my Cold War, British Territorial Army (TA) armoured reconnaissance troop trilogy is complete. As always, the painting stage has taken forever - partly (mainly) because it's a pain in the bum.  Anyhoo, if that's all I have to worry about - I guess it's OK.

So, the backstory and pics...

FV603 Saracen Mk 5

Fact [1]:
The Alvis FV603 Saracen was a 6-wheel armoured personnel carrier (APC) produced from 1952 to 1976. IT WAS PART OF Alvis’ FV600 series of vehicles which all shared a modular chassis system: FV601 Saladin armoured car; FV651 salamander fire tender; and FV620 Stalwart high mobility load carrier. Powered by a Rolls-Royce B80, 8-cylinder petrol engine, it had a crew of 2 and could carry up to 9 fully armed infantrymen. Defensive armament was provided by a L37 GPMG in a fully rotatable turret – earlier models also had a 0.303 Bren or a Browning 0.30 machine gun, on a ring mount, on the aft roof section.

The vehicle was retired from frontline service with the British Army in the late 1970s, but it continued to see extensive use in the internal security role in Northern Ireland well into the 1980s.

The Mk 5 was an up-armoured version based on either the Mk 1 or Mk 2 APC. Upgraded with applique armour, vision blocks also replaced the driver’s periscopes and the side firing ports were plated over. An armoured turret remained but the ring-mounted MG position was plated over.

FV603 Saracen Mk 5:
Produced: 1952-1976
In service: 1952-1983 (British Army)
Mass: 11.0t
Length: 5.0m (16ft 4in)
Width: 2.5m (8ft 3in)
Height: 2.4m (8ft 0in)
Crew: 2 + 9
Armament: 1 x L37 General Purpose MG
Engine: Rolls-Royce B80 Mk 6A, 8-cylinder, petrol – 160hp
Speed: 45mph (72km/h)
Range: 250mls (400km)

Fiction [2,3]:
With the failure of the FV720 Fox program in the early 1970s and the decision to adopts the FV608 Scarab in its place for the Territorial Army’s (TA) recce formations, a number of Regular Army FV603 Saracen Mk 5 were also repurposed to the TA as they, in turn, were being replaced by the FV103 Spartan CVR(T). Within the TA, four yeomanry regiments eventually converted to the Scarab in the armoured reconnaissance role:

Queen’s Own Yeomanry (5 x Squadrons) - 15th TA Bde, 2 UK Infantry Division in support of BAOR.
The Royal Yeomanry (5 x Squadrons) - 49th TA Bde, 2 UK Infantry Division in support of BAOR.
The Duke of Lancaster’s Own Yeomanry (4 x Squadrons) - 2 Inf Bde, Home Defence
The Scottish Yeomanry (4 x Squadrons) - 1 Bn, 51 (Highland) Inf Bde in support of 4 Arm Div, BAOR, and Home Defence.

The yeomanry regiments comprised of 4-5 squadrons each of 12 x Scarab, 4 x Ferret Mk 5 (Swingfire), and 4 x Saracen APC split between 4 x troops, and a squadron HQ of 1 x Saracen CPV, 1 x Ferret Mk 4 and 1 x Saracen ambulance. Within each troop, the Saracen provided a section of infantry which would be used in the close protection of the Ferret Mk 5 Swingfire and/or as dismounted reconnaissance assets.

It is possible that, like the FV608 Scarab and FV712 Ferret Swingfire it served alongside, the FV603 Saracen Mk 5 may have served longer were it not for the end of the Cold War and the subsequent peace dividends that slashed the size of the British Army. All of the TA armoured reconnaissance regiments were disbanded by 1993.

The model depicts the fourth vehicle of 2 Troop, B Squadron, The Scottish Yeomanry in support of 1st Bn, 51 (Highland) Inf Bde during Ex LIONHEART 84. Construction is an Airfix Saracen Mk 5 straight out of the box but with some home-made decals to reflect the AH setting.

References:
1.  Extracted from Airfix FV603 Saracen Mk 5 Instructions.
2.  Extracted from my Saladin R (FV608 Scarab) backstory.
3.  Extracted from my FV712 Ferret Mk 5 Swingfire backstory.

[Old Wombat]

Stunning little trilogy!       

[Claymore]

Stunning little trilogy!       

Thanks Guy, much appreciated. 

[Frank3k]

Just fantastic! Subtle weathering (especially on the tires).

[Claymore]

Just fantastic! Subtle weathering (especially on the tires).

Thanks Frank.  Yup, unless you are talking deep wartime action, it is my experience that most peace time military vehicles are kept in, if not quite show room condition, pretty damn close.  On returning to base/barracks after any kind of exercise/deployment all of our vehicles were washed and refuelled before being bedded down and serviced the next day with all scrapes and scratches repainted. Heavy weathering just wasn’t allowed to be a thing! Crappy vehicle equals crappy crew equals liability equals mission fail…

[Buzzbomb]

Just fantastic! Subtle weathering (especially on the tires).

Thanks Frank.  Yup, unless you are talking deep wartime action, it is my experience that most peace time military vehicles are kept in, if not quite show room condition, pretty damn close.  On returning to base/barracks after any kind of exercise/deployment all of our vehicles were washed and refuelled before being bedded down and serviced the next day with all scrapes and scratches repainted. Heavy weathering just wasn’t allowed to be a thing! Crappy vehicle equals crappy crew equals liability equals mission fail…

I can second this !


Andy, again just a neat model that I would be proud to have on my shelf.

Now as the Saracen now appears to be available in Aust….. it is ordering time 

[Kerick]

Just fantastic! Subtle weathering (especially on the tires).

Thanks Frank.  Yup, unless you are talking deep wartime action, it is my experience that most peace time military vehicles are kept in, if not quite show room condition, pretty damn close.  On returning to base/barracks after any kind of exercise/deployment all of our vehicles were washed and refuelled before being bedded down and serviced the next day with all scrapes and scratches repainted. Heavy weathering just wasn’t allowed to be a thing! Crappy vehicle equals crappy crew equals liability equals mission fail…

This was my experience too! Our jeeps or HUMMZs were always washed after being in the field. Our squadron also quarterly “Top Wheels” competition to see whose vehicle was in the best condition. Then there was if you deployed the vehicle on an aircraft it had to be spotless. Both heading out and coming home. Plus when I was stationed at Ft. Ord in California it was dry most of the time so the only real problem was dust. We went to Ft. Irwin National Training Center in the Mohave desert a couple of times. The Army would try improvised camo of the NATO colors to desert by getting a tanker full of water and making mud then smearing that all over their vehicles. Of course that got washed off immediately after the exercise.

[Claymore]

Thanks for the kind words.

Sounds like militaries the world over have the same vehicle discipline - hours of fun in the wash down! 

[Claymore]

Whilst contemplating a design for a fellow AH enthusiast across on alternatehistory.com, I got to thinking what might have happened had the likes of Vickers-Armstrongs taken on the challenge of producing a stop-gap cruiser tank to fill the production/operational gap between the demise of the Crusader as a frontline combat vehicle and the introduction of the Cromwell in its final A27M configuration. In other words, something to cover the debacle (or more kindly, the very slow development) of the A24 Cavalier and A27 Centaur.  This is what I came up with...

Cruiser Tank Vigilante

Buoyed by the success of their Valentine tank and a genuine concern over the progress of Nuffield’s cruiser replacement for the Crusader tank, Vickers-Armstrongs (V-A) decided to develop their own cruiser design (the Vigilante).

Their planning assumptions were that the new cruiser would be better armoured than the Crusader, at least as fast and carry the new QF 6 pdr gun currently under development as standard. The hull would be loosely based on that of the Valentine but adapted to accept Christie-type suspension and a 57” turret ring. With a design weight of 20 tonnes and a desired power to weight ratio of 16-19 hp/t, the controversial decision was made to go with the same Meadows DAV flat-12 engine that powered the ill-fated Covenanter tank. Having had a year’s worth of operational experience to develop their engine, Meadows were now in a position to offer the Mk 2 model at 370hp. Part of the Covenanter’s problems had been the lack of space to incorporate an efficient engine cooling system vital to the performance of the Meadow’s flat-12. V-A, therefore, extended the rear of their Vigilante to accommodate the necessary radiators, oil coolers and fans.

In order to keep the weight down to the desired 20 tonnes, the Vigilante Mk I was designed with a 4-pair road wheel arrangement like the Covenanter and earlier cruiser designs. However, they had all been considerably lighter and it soon became evident that the ‘4-pair’ layout was causing significant over stressing of the suspension springs and a less-than-satisfactory ride for the crew over rough terrain. Rather than fight the problem, the decision was taken early to scrap the 4-pair arrangement, accept the extra weight, and move to the Vigilante Mk II with a 5-pair arrangement of road wheels.

Fitted with the new QF 6 pdr (57mm) Mk III (L/43) gun, the vigilante Mk II entered service in May 1942 and was soon deployed on operations in North Africa. Later in the year, the Vigilante’s 6 pdr gun was replaced with the newer Mk V (L/50) model.

With the introduction of the QF 75mm in 1943, the opportunity was taken to upgrade the Vigilante to the Mk III standard with an increase in armour protection and a change to the Meadows DAV flat-12 Mk 3 (410hp) engine. The Mk IIIA would mount the QF 75mm general purpose gun whilst the Mk IIIB would remain as the anti-tank specialist with the QF 6 pdr Mk V on a 2/3 to 1/3 basis respectively.

After the North African campaign, the Vigilante went on to serve with distinction in Sicily and mainland Italy where it primary filled the ranks of the Armoured Reconnaissance Regiments. By 1944, the newer Cromwell tank had entered service and it was, therefore, decided that they would participate in the Normandy invasion and subsequent NW European campaign. The Vigilante continued to provide sterling service in Italy until the end of the war.

Cruiser Tank Vigilante   
Type:   Cruiser Tank
Place of Origen:   United Kingdom

Service History   
In service:   1942-1945 (Mk II/III only)
Used by:   United Kingdom
Wars:   World War 2

Production History   
Designer:   Vickers-Armstrongs
Manufacturer:   Vickers-Armstrongs
Produced:   1941-1944
No built:   4200

Specifications   
Mass:   20-24t
Length (Hull):   5.71m (18’ 9”)
Width:   2.71m (8’ 10.5”)
Height:   2.34m (7’ 8”)
Crew:   4 (Commander, gunner, loader, driver)
Armour:   Mk I/II - 20-55mm (0.8-2.2”): Mk III - 20-70mm (0.8-2.75”)
Main armament:   Mk I - QF 6 pdr Mk III, (57mm); 62 rounds: Mk II - QF 6 pdr Mk III/V, (57mm); 62 rounds: Mk III - QF 75mm (75mm); 54 rounds
Secondary armament:   1 x 7.92mm Besa machine gun
Engine:   Mk I/II - Meadows DAV flat-12 Mk 2 16-litre, 370hp: Mk III - Meadows DAV flat-12 Mk 3 16-litre, 410hp
Power/weight:   Mk I - 18.5hp/t: Mk II - 17hp/t: Mk III - 17hp/t
Suspension:   Mk I - Christie with four pairs of wheels each side: Mk II/III - Christie with five pairs of wheels each side
Ground clearance:   0.44m (1’ 5”)
Operational range:   150km (94mi) on internal capacity
Maximum speed:   48km/h (30mph)

Variants
Mk I: Pre-production version with four pairs of road wheels each side. Whilst saving weight, the educed umber of road wheels resulted in higher ground pressure and greater strain on the suspension springs – ultimately affecting ride stability, cross country performance and mechanical reliability.



Mk II: Original production version with revised ‘5-wheel’ running gear. Built to mount the QF 6 pdr (57mm) Mk III gun as standard. Whilst operating in North Africa, the fitting of one or two jettisonable auxiliary fuel tanks was common. Once available in mid-1943, the longer QF 6 pdr Mk V (L/50) replaced earlier Mk III (L/43) gun.



Mk II CS: Mounted a QF 3-inch (76.2mm) howitzer in the turret instead of the 6 pdr. Issued on a basis of 2 per Squadron and Regimental HQ.



Mk IIIA: Increased armour on the hull front and turret front with an up-rated engine producing 410hp. The 6 pdr gun was replaced with the QF 75mm whose better HE capability made the Mk II CS obsolete.



Mk IIIB: As per the Mk IIIA but kept the QF 6 pdr Mk V as the primary weapon for its superior anti-tank capability over the 75mm.



Mk II AA: Obsolete Mk II CS tanks had their turrets replaced by the twin20mm Oerlikon turret, circa 1943.



Mk III CS: As per the Mk IIIA but with the QF 95mm howitzer replacing the 75mm gun, circa 1944. Issued on a basis of 2 per Squadron and Regimental HQ.



Drawing design contributors   
Upper hull:   Valentine (highly adapted)
Lower hull:   Home grown
Front hull:   Matilda II (highly adapted)
Rear hull:   Cromwell/Avenger (highly adapted)
Running gear:   Soviet T-29 (various prototypes – adapted)
Tracks:   Avenger
Turret:   Valentine/Boarhound (highly adapted)/Crusader AA
Main gun:   Various
All bits in between:   Home grown

[Claymore]

...and, of course, the challenge is now to build the wee beastie! 

[Old Wombat]

Very nice concepts! 

...and, of course, the challenge is now to build the wee beastie! 

I think you mean "wee beasties" (there are 7 variants, you know). 

[Claymore]

Very nice concepts! 

...and, of course, the challenge is now to build the wee beastie! 

I think you mean "wee beasties" (there are 7 variants, you know). 

Thanks mate!

There are indeed quite a few of them - I will be concentrating on the Mk IIIA and MK IIIB.  One model with interchangeable guns.