Author Topic: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles  (Read 48088 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« on: January 21, 2012, 05:51:41 AM »
Rob Haelterman's 1/72nd scale what-if model JagdSherman


(Click on image to view article.  Image source: Rob Haelterman/ARC-Armor)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 06:31:39 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 10:01:03 AM »
Cool- I want to do something like that one day.

Invited?
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Offline sotoolslinger

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 10:14:38 AM »
Yep dang nifty. Dude needs to be here.

Offline jcf

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 11:18:30 AM »
Interesting concept, however the  name is silly and this line is a bit baffling:
"I have always wondered why the Allies never worked on anything resembling the “Jagdpanzer” style of vehicles" ...
Huh? Has he never heard of the Su-85 and Su-100? How about Archer?, OK the gun doesn't stick out the front,
but the concept is the same.

The US did work on fixed casemate, 3" gun Tank-Destroyers, the T24 of 1940/41 and the T40 of early 1942, which was based on the T24. The T40 was standardized as the M9 in April, 1942 and was to enter immediate production, however the Tank Destroyer Board didn't like the vehicle from the speed or mobility standpoints. Production was also a problem as there were only 27 of the Model 1918 3in guns available, thus the project was cancelled.


Also it can be argued that the Christie originated the layout:

Model 1932


Model 1935A


Model 1935B


Model 1936
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 11:35:24 AM by jcf »
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Offline beowulf

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 05:33:10 PM »
thats cool... 8)...i like that. can relate to how the guy is thinking since i did a couple of tank destroyers based on the Crusader

the thing is that the Archer and M9 are a slightly different design to the casement style since they have open tops, which is what i think this guy was after
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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 02:50:51 AM »
Another take (background story wise) on this might be to say that the conversion was done by the USSR who also used Shermans supplied under Lend Lease.  Maybe some were converted into Su-Shermans?
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Offline jcf

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 03:25:19 PM »
Early Archers had an open top, the later vehicles had a roof.

As to the name, and in keeping with the Brit originated 'name after US Generals' theme:
the Berdan, after Hiram Berdan, commander of the 1st and 2nd  United States
Volunteer Sharpshooter Regiments of the Union Army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Berdan

http://www.berdansharpshooters.org/About_Us/Original/original.index.htm

Anyhoo, for a number of physical reasons a Jägdpanzer IV layout is more likely than a Jägdpanther
layout.





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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 08:24:02 AM »
Another take (background story wise) on this might be to say that the conversion was done by the USSR who also used Shermans supplied under Lend Lease.  Maybe some were converted into Su-Shermans?


Good idea. And certainly believable.

Her are two quick bashes of a Su-85 casemate and gun on an M4A1 hull.

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 03:04:42 AM »
Just found this on Missing-Lynx:

Peter Horvath posted images of his work in progress on a 1/35th scale model of an Pakistani Army M4 Sherman tank armed with a 76mm gun from Russian PT-76 amphibious tank/reconnaissance vehicle. 

Click on image or html to view additional images.

Image of the real vehicle captured by the Indian Army and now on display in India. 
(Image source: Peter Horvath)

The commanders cupola is also different, I do not recognize it as OEM for the Sherman.  Anyone know what vehicle it was originally from? 
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Offline Maverick

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 06:59:38 AM »
Without a clearer picture (either model or photo) it's a little hard to judge, but it looks German.  My first thought was StuG or Leo.

Thanks for sharing.

John
Regards,

John

Offline Jacques Deguerre

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 05:26:30 AM »
My guess is that the cupola is British. Possibly from a Cromwell or Comet. I did a Google image search but had trouble coming up with a definitive match.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 05:41:25 AM »
My guess is that the cupola is British. Possibly from a Cromwell or Comet. I did a Google image search but had trouble coming up with a definitive match.

Definitely not stock equipment for a Sherman.  The images of the model show the cupola in almost every image but not in sharp enough detail to tell what it is.  At first glance I thought it might have originated with a Chieftain or Centurion but I was just guessing at that point.  Still interesting to see something different such as this. 
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Offline AGRA

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 06:57:53 AM »
Always thought these ex Israeli Shermans with 60mm guns were pretty cool.



Might make some cool Whifs like in South African service if they couldn't buy numbers of second hand Cenutrions in the 70s and 80s.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 07:53:31 PM »
Another JagdSherman conversion.  This time the subject is based on the rather old Tamiya M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo kit. 

Click on html to view images at Track-Link.net

JagdSherman by Pidara Maxime
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline beowulf

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 02:26:56 AM »
i like that one .....giving me ideas again  8)
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2012, 03:04:39 AM »
Another JagdSherman conversion.  This time the subject is based on the rather old Tamiya M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo kit. 

Click on html to view images at Track-Link.net

JagdSherman by Pidara Maxime


Just saw that today. I may have to convert the Italeri M7 into something like that.
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2012, 03:14:41 AM »
If I had to guess,I'd say the cupola is definatly British. There were some Shermans that used British cupolas.
Every time you eat celery,an angel vomits in a gas station bathroom. Tanks rule. I know the load is late,but the voices tell me to pull over and clean the guns.

Offline Wyrmshadow

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2012, 11:44:22 PM »
dug up this old thing I worked on a while ago.


Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2012, 11:31:19 PM »
For the Shermanphile amongst us, there is a web page called the Sherman Minutia Website that has some interesting topics on the intricacies of determining which variant of the M4 Sherman you are looking at or modeling.   

Click on image or html to visit the website. 

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Offline Mark Aldrich

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2012, 04:38:17 AM »
The IDF were the coolest at converting SHermans!  IF I was a good scratchbuilder, I could build variants until I pass!
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Offline dy031101

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 01:31:35 PM »
Found off World of Tank forum:

Top- "M4 IP", with more sloped armours.  Would look like it's trying to beat the Panther if it could take the 17 pounder......

Middle- M4 with Christie suspension.  :-*

Bottom- Another M3-based turreted tank; this time the idea came from the Americans themselves.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 11:57:24 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2012, 02:41:31 AM »
The M4 with Christie suspension would be interesting to model.
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Offline raafif

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2012, 04:08:44 AM »
The M4 with Christie suspension would be interesting to model.


Yes, it would !    soooo ... DO IT !!!!

Here's my Sherman Prototype with torsion-bar suspension ...

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2012, 04:10:48 AM »
 :)
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 04:22:10 AM »
Roland Aßmann has put together a rather interesting kit bash involving an M4 cast hull and a few T-34 components that you can view at this link: What if... T 68 Sovsherman

Same images are posted at Missing-Lynx forums at this link: What if... T 68 Sovsherman
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 04:24:11 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg