Author Topic: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 25431 times)

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2015, 08:46:31 PM »
I wonder if it would have been possible to mount Firestreak in such a manner?

Firestreak and Red Top required a substantial missile support pack in the aircraft, close to the pylon. You might be able to incorporate it in the space vacated by two of the gun magazines, but it'd be pretty tight and fiddly.
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Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2015, 12:13:43 AM »
Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.

Just re-reading the whole topic and this is pretty much what I want to do, I already have the Freightdog P.1109 conversion but have discovered from them that a manufacturer has lost the masters for the P.1083 which is why that conversion is no longer available, the Revell F.6 and FGR.9 not being currently available at the moment is another issue, both for being able to acquire one myself and for it being worthwhile for Freightdog to make new masters. 

What I would really like to do is do a P1083/P.1109B cross in 1/48.  With appropriate plans I am confident I could do it, because while I lack the detailing and painting skills I so admire (envy) in some of you, I do a pretty good job fabricating/forming/shaping pretty much what I want from a sufficiently detailed plan in a suitable material.  My real ambition would actually be to 3D print the required parts but that would make detailed drawings even more critical. 

Anyone know if any plans drawings of the various hunter concepts, prototypes and versions are available and if there are how I can get them?

Would love the tandem two seated as well as the P.1083 and 1109B, also a look at the various air brake options.

My thinking is the Hunter evolves, from the superb and long lived aircraft it was anyway, into an even more versatile and longer lived type through the development and production of an equivalent of my latest inspiration, the Dassault Etendard.  The September 2015 edition of Warships IFR has a photo of a pair of Super Etendards on p.36 that at first glance (without glasses) I took to be Hunters, this got me thinking that the Hunter could have followed similar evolution but two decades earlier to fill a similar role in the RN, RCN and RAN as well as land based versions with Hunter, and perhaps some Super Sabre customers.

P.1040, P.1081, P.1083/1109 are developed pretty much as UK equivalents to the Grumman Panther, Cougar and Tiger, entering service in a similar but slightly later time frame.

End result is (because of the Korean war experience) the Hunter is co-developed by UK, Australia and the Netherlands as a replacement for the Seafires, Furies and Fireflies on the 1942 type Light Fleet carriers to permit the their continued effective service into the 1960s, in single and tandem seat day and all weather fighter and strike variants.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2015, 10:53:12 AM »

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2015, 08:53:56 PM »
very nice pair of (former) Hunters and very much what I'm thinking.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2015, 09:48:51 PM »
Quote
P.1040, P.1081, P.1083/1109 are developed pretty much as UK equivalents to the Grumman Panther, Cougar and Tiger, entering service in a similar but slightly later time frame.

Funny you should frame it that way, my P.1083/P.1109 mix will have Tiger drop tanks.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2015, 11:03:51 PM »
I mentioned it that way because that is how you wrote it back on page one of the topic, interestingly, while I came up with the idea of a FAA Super Hunter independently your terminology was simple and elegant so I decided to use it. 

Really seeing this aircraft as a British equivalent to the Tiger that evolves into an alternative to the Super Etendard (really odd, my auto correct keeps changing "Etendard" to "Standard"), starts as a fall back to the Scimitar, or perhaps even a deliberate plan to provide a new generation of multi-role combat aircraft for the 1942 and 43 Light Fleet carriers, as well as minimally modified Armoured Fleet carriers to keep them viable into the 60s or later.  Remembering the USMC Hunter on another site (Britmodeller?) a possibility could have been the type ends up being adopted by the USN for use on the CVS Essex conversions instead of Skyhawk, with the possibility of the type then being adopted by the JMSDF to equip there CVS fleet (they desired the capability from the late 50s, but found it politically impossible to achieve).

Don't know if its worth going to a Super Duper Hunter (Super Tiger equivalent) though because it likely would be too large and heavy for the smaller carriers while more modern types would be available for the larger ships.  Besides it doesn't fit the overall idea I'm working on as part of my similar but much richer Australia concept.  As far as the P.1083/1109 hybrid goes it is the pinnacle of Hawker Australia / Hawker De Havilland Australia fighter production that started with either the Hawker Fury and Demon in the early 1930s or Sea Fury in the late 40s.  Basically the RAAF follows their post war plans, concentrating on strategic bombers, long range fighters and interceptors but almost completely overlooking fighter bombers, attack and medium bombers, the types most suitable for CAS, maritime strike, interdiction, the missions most critical to the Army, RAN and RAM.

In this richer Australia the RAAF is similar to reality but a number of gaps are filled and types they really operated are supplemented by other types, the big change is the other services gain control of the missions critical to them.  This is where Hawker wins out with their fighter types serving with the RAN FAA, Army Air Corps and RAM Air Corps though to the Super Hunter before switching to newer types.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2015, 11:47:05 PM »
Okay, I'll have to find it again, but I've got drawings for a four-seat. 2+2. Hunter trainer (the idea was a crew trainer for the TSR-2 as well as a larger "Admiral's barge").  It's still a doable concept and it's on my "to do" list.  Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.

Is the forward transport joint the one where the forward fuselage joins to the centre barrel just aft of the forward intake lip?  I'm trying to picture this (19mm in 1/48) extension and decide whether it would look good on my Italeri Hunter.

Also thinking I will delete the airbrake and either engrave some flush Sabre type replacements, or even see if there are some suitable accessory ones for a Sabre or similar I would buy.  The Sabrinas would go, the justification is the stretch (which also moved the cannons 3' forward) was found to alleviate the original problem of links striking the fuselage.

A scratch built radar nose of suitable profile depending on radar selected, an arrester hook (the PR10 had one so I will use that for reference), catapult launching strop attachments and a folding wing will finish it off.  Just a thought, if it has a proper, rather than just the ranging radar, the instrument panel will need to be modified too. 

I am not brave enough to do the P.1083 wing but may try increasing the sweep of the kit wing (and hopefully remember to modify the undercarriage to fit).

End result a Hawker Demon transonic fighter bomber, initially developed as an army all weather attack fighter, but then also adopted by the RAN FAA and RAM AC due to its ability to be adapted to operate from the RANs older, smaller carriers.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2018, 11:29:00 AM »
If you want a refresher on the Hawker Hunter, take quick hop to this page http://www.airvectors.net/avhunt_1.html where there are lots of good user data, profiles including some paper designs.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2018, 12:47:59 PM »
Okay, I'll have to find it again, but I've got drawings for a four-seat. 2+2. Hunter trainer (the idea was a crew trainer for the TSR-2 as well as a larger "Admiral's barge").  It's still a doable concept and it's on my "to do" list.  Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.

Is the forward transport joint the one where the forward fuselage joins to the centre barrel just aft of the forward intake lip?  I'm trying to picture this (19mm in 1/48) extension and decide whether it would look good on my Italeri Hunter.
A scratch built radar nose of suitable profile depending on radar selected, an arrester hook (the PR10 had one so I will use that for reference), catapult launching strop attachments and a folding wing will finish it off.  Just a thought, if it has a proper, rather than just the ranging radar, the instrument panel will need to be modified too. 
{SNIP}
I am not brave enough to do the P.1083 wing but may try increasing the sweep of the kit wing (and hopefully remember to modify the undercarriage to fit).
Yes, that's the joint (basically where the split is on the Matchbox kit to allow either nose to be used).

IIRC, the intakes on the P.1083 wing were not anymore swept than the standard intakes and the increased sweep was outboard from there.  That might assist in modifying the undercarriage for the more swept wing.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 12:54:44 PM by elmayerle »

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2018, 01:46:08 PM »
Thanks, maybe it could even be wing transplant from something else, maybe a F-105.

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2018, 03:44:39 PM »
Yeah, read that one.  IIRC the changes didn't aid performance.
Cannot find that article right now - but I recall it was only slightly faster with the area-rule-fairing. Not enough to bother.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2018, 04:32:59 PM »
F-105 wing transplant otta be looking wild and fast...... :smiley:

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2018, 09:19:32 PM »
Or maybe RF-84F wing?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2018, 10:49:10 PM »
Or maybe RF-84F wing?

Or a modified lightning wing after I buy one of the Freightdog VG conversions.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2018, 02:07:56 AM »
Or maybe RF-84F wing?

Using my WIP Hunter Nighthawk NF.1 as the victim here is what it could look like. The wings are under the fuselage. I'd also use the F-84 tail.

Hunter-RF-84F
by Big Gimper, on Flickr
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 05:41:19 AM by The Big Gimper »
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I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...