Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on December 30, 2011, 03:35:41 AM

Title: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 30, 2011, 03:35:41 AM
Hi folks,

A place for your Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration.

To begin with, here is my take on a tandem seating Hunter trainer:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/661de185.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 30, 2011, 03:36:15 AM
And Drone/Missile/UCAV Hunter as well:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/9f9dc15e.jpg?t=1241684546)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 30, 2011, 03:39:19 AM
Sea Hunter - practicality be damned!!

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/Seahunter.jpg)

regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kengeorge on December 30, 2011, 06:09:13 AM
Navy Hunter, Nice!!

Or how about these, Hawker Huntress'

Ken...
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 30, 2011, 06:28:50 AM
The folding wing Hunter looks really good. 
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Stargazer2006 on January 04, 2012, 07:55:07 AM
Here is the diminutive Hawker Hermes:

(http://aviadesign.online.fr/images/hawker-hermes.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Cliffy B on January 04, 2012, 10:43:40 AM
Anyone up to drawing a photobird or an "Electric Hunter" (ECM)?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on January 08, 2012, 11:42:59 AM
Reduce the sweep of all flying surfaces a bit and shorten the rear fuselage a bit as well.

As above only enlarge the flying surfaces' length some as well for a PR variant.


The Hunter is simply gorgeous as she is so I'd love to do one in a pseudo Arctic USAF scheme that has significantly more red and yellow on it.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 08, 2012, 01:01:11 PM
Okay, I'll have to find it again, but I've got drawings for a four-seat. 2+2. Hunter trainer (the idea was a crew trainer for the TSR-2 as well as a larger "Admiral's barge").  It's still a doable concept and it's on my "to do" list.  Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 08, 2012, 02:11:33 PM
Anyone up to drawing a photobird or an "Electric Hunter" (ECM)?
The thought occurs to me that dropping the guns and modifying the "Sabrinas" (having seen a pic of the actress in question, it's an appropo name) as ECM pods would work as well as extra pods for the outboard hardpoints and tanks on the inboard ones.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 08, 2012, 03:21:27 PM
Good suggestion.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: gofy on April 25, 2012, 09:44:42 PM
WWII '46 or even '56?
Crazy, but possible!
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 26, 2012, 03:28:53 AM
WWII '46 or even '56?
Crazy, but possible!

Cool...against NAZI MiG-15/17s?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 26, 2012, 03:30:46 AM
How about the Hunter managing to make it to the Korean theatre in time? 
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on April 26, 2012, 11:26:26 AM
Hi folks,

A place for your Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration.

To begin with, here is my take on a tandem seating Hunter trainer:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/661de185.jpg[/url])

if memory serves me correctly, Hawker did do the PD work on a tandem seat Hunter and ISTR that Maintrack's "Project X" series included a conversion for it.  I disremember the project number, though.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on April 27, 2012, 01:10:30 AM
I got this from Martin Higgs (OGL on t'other forum), I think it's his own.  It's 1/72 scale though Greg.
I don't know if he's still producing it though.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: tsrjoe on July 24, 2012, 03:32:13 AM
Hawker Hunter XG194 - Su.7 'Fitter' like real life conversion, dummy 'wargames' airframe at North Luffenham ...

cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: tsrjoe on July 24, 2012, 03:39:13 AM
the conversion is the old 'Maintrack' tandem Hunter (the resin piece has nose contour issues being based originally on the 'Matchbox' Hunter nose), currently Martin of the IPMS. Whatif sig is remastering it, i think another example is due soon from Cambell at 'Odds and Ordanance', an easy enough conversion tho just cutting and lengthening the forward fuselage and splicing in an extra canopy length  :)

cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 24, 2012, 04:11:01 AM
Hawker Hunter XG194 - Su.7 'Fitter' like real life conversion, dummy 'wargames' airframe at North Luffenham ...

cheers, Joe

Cool....that could be modelled...
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: tc2324 on July 26, 2012, 11:21:08 PM
USAF Hunter.

(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/tc2324/010-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on July 26, 2012, 11:57:43 PM
Highest level modeling! :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 27, 2012, 03:59:46 AM
Me has plans to do RAAF Hunter in this scheme - has decals already 8):

(http://www.hpmhobbies.com/product_images/z/878/HPK072045_BX_RevB__52924_zoom.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 02, 2012, 11:01:03 AM
With Mirage front ...

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_mirage_01.jpg)

... a little more 'miraged'

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_mirage_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 02, 2012, 06:07:29 PM
I like! :)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 03, 2012, 04:02:16 AM
Suited for British People's Republic Air Force (BPRAF)

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_mig19_01.jpg)

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_mig21_01.jpg)

Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 04, 2012, 04:14:52 AM
What about a scale-o-rama using the Hunter as a basis for a Hawker V-bomber?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 04, 2012, 04:30:04 AM
I love the lower one!
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on August 04, 2012, 06:16:07 AM
I'd like to see one of these Hunter profiles with the Gripen forward fuselage.  Sometime ago I did some comparisons of the Hunter and Gripen and found the two kits are practically the same size and equipment placed in just about the same position too.  Since then I've always considered the Gripen the 'Super Hunter' and especially so when you take into account that most of the Gripen design team were from BAe and many had been associated with the Hunter design.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: raafif on August 04, 2012, 06:28:39 AM
I prefer the upper one -- the lower one with pointy nose is obviously the US-built version :)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 06, 2012, 11:56:06 PM
I'd like to see one of these Hunter profiles with the Gripen forward fuselage.  Sometime ago I did some comparisons of the Hunter and Gripen and found the two kits are practically the same size and equipment placed in just about the same position too.  Since then I've always considered the Gripen the 'Super Hunter' and especially so when you take into account that most of the Gripen design team were from BAe and many had been associated with the Hunter design.


(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_gripen_01.jpg)

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_gripen_02.jpg)

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_gripen_03.jpg)

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_gripen_04.jpg)

Hi KitNut, for you to consider alternatives  ;) :)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on August 07, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
Very nicely done Carlos --  :)

Robert
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on March 30, 2013, 02:57:18 PM
GA.11 looking variant.
Iraq, 1991
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 30, 2013, 06:18:51 PM
Suited for British People's Republic Air Force (BPRAF)

([url]http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_mig19_01.jpg[/url])

([url]http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/hunter_mig21_01.jpg[/url])


Lots of potential there, given that the original design of the Hunter had a nose intake and a T-tail.... :)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 30, 2013, 06:34:34 PM
I'd like to see one of these Hunter profiles with the Gripen forward fuselage.  Sometime ago I did some comparisons of the Hunter and Gripen and found the two kits are practically the same size and equipment placed in just about the same position too.  Since then I've always considered the Gripen the 'Super Hunter' and especially so when you take into account that most of the Gripen design team were from BAe and many had been associated with the Hunter design.


You could have the F-20 Tigershark as an intermediate step between the Hunter and the Gripen. It's often been said that the Gripen is what you'd end up with if you started designing the F-20 with a clean sheet of paper instead of an F-5E. Maybe de-evolve the F-20 back to a 1960s spec with a re-heated Avon instead of the F-404, swept tail surfaces and Hawker-esque wingtips with no AAA rails. You could kinda say that the Avon F-20 is what you'd get if you set out to make the Hunter supersonic, taking your inspiration from the F-104.... ;)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on March 30, 2013, 10:03:59 PM
For my trip to Yuma I picked up a couple of magazines to read on the plane, latest The Aeroplane and Air International.  There is an article in Aeroplane (March issue) about RAE's attempts to 'area rule' an early Hunter, a Mk.1 to be exact.  They re-profiled the rear end of the fuselage starting just a little forward of the wing's trailing edge and ending at the tailpipe.  The work was all done by RAE, Hawker not being involved at all, but the test results were incorporated into the Mk.6.  The article is written by Tony Buttler and there's a number of section view drawings of the revised area included, might make an interesting conversion ---
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 31, 2013, 04:24:44 AM
Yeah, read that one.  IIRC the changes didn't aid performance.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on June 14, 2013, 09:11:01 AM
Not a whiff but worth a look: Hammer UK9 on Britmodeller has done the (in)famous "Miss Demeanour" in 1/72nd:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234941241-miss-demeanour-revell-172-hawker-hunter/ (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234941241-miss-demeanour-revell-172-hawker-hunter/)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/StormShield/Modelling%20Photos/Miss%20Demeanour/IMG_0269_zpsfad759ca.jpg)

 :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on February 05, 2014, 04:10:03 PM
Anyone have a good profile drawing of the inboard stores pylons that were added to the Swiss and Singapore Hunters? 
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on February 05, 2014, 10:34:42 PM
Anyone have a good profile drawing of the inboard stores pylons that were added to the Swiss and Singapore Hunters?

The Revell 1/72 Mk.6 (or was the the Mk.9) has them included Jeff, could be a source if no one else can help.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on February 06, 2014, 04:40:57 AM
Anyone have a good profile drawing of the inboard stores pylons that were added to the Swiss and Singapore Hunters?

The Revell 1/72 Mk.6 (or was the the Mk.9) has them included Jeff, could be a source if no one else can help.


Thanks Robert.  I believe that the 1:32nd scale Revell Hunter also includes the inboard stores pylon for the Swiss Hunter but I am not eager to plonk down money on two kits that are in the wrong scale for me. 
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on February 06, 2014, 07:08:36 AM
Anyone have a good profile drawing of the inboard stores pylons that were added to the Swiss and Singapore Hunters?

The Revell 1/72 Mk.6 (or was the the Mk.9) has them included Jeff, could be a source if no one else can help.


Thanks Robert.  I believe that the 1:32nd scale Revell Hunter also includes the inboard stores pylon for the Swiss Hunter but I am not eager to plonk down money on two kits that are in the wrong scale for me.

I'll try to find my two, I know I've seen them in one of the kits.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kerick on February 06, 2014, 09:10:01 AM
I really like the Gripen nose and cockpit on the Hunter wings and fuselage. I'll add this to my future projects list.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 13, 2014, 10:53:05 PM
Sea Hunter - practicality be damned!!

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/Seahunter.jpg[/url])

regards,

Greg


I have just been rereading an old book on the Sabre, Mig 15 and Hunter.  There was a short section on the GA11 as well as some photos and a nice colour profile.  Also in the last section, relating the experiences of two Australians in flying the Hunter the second, a retired RAN FAA Commodore, said the GA11he flew felt pretty much as he would imagine a super Seahawk. 

This got me wondering about a carrier capable Seahunter so I do a quick search to see if we have a Hunter topic and what do I find?

Great stuff Greg I love it!

Anyway while its pretty obvious why there wasn't a Seahunter, Scimitar and Sea Vixen already under development etc, it is a shame it wasn't actually developed as a replacement for the Seahawk.  A back story could be that the RN retains their light fleet carriers and requires a replacement for the Seahawk.  They can afford to do this because either the UK doesn't participate in the Suez Crisis (which led to cuts in US assistance and ultimately the withdrawal of east of Suez), or Eisenhower chokes on his cornflakes on hearing of it and in the subsequent political upheaval in the US they don't get involved at all other than making it clear to Khrushchev that they will defend their allies under the NATO Treaty.  Seahunter replaces Seahawk, and that sexy tandem profile suggests a FAW version could be developed to replace the Sea Venom.  Both serve into the 70s until replaced by the Sea Harrier.

And of course, there is a RAN FAA version.  ;)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on December 14, 2014, 03:15:50 PM
Hawker Sea Hunter (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,29547.0.html)

(http://a.imageshack.us/img190/4069/seahunter4.jpg)

Hawker Herne (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,30634.msg471157.html#msg471157)

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6950/1001691q.jpg)

Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 14, 2014, 08:56:42 PM
How tall is the Hunter? Would it fit in the 14' hanger of an Implacable?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: perttime on December 14, 2014, 10:46:08 PM
I think... Hunter F.6 height was 13 ft 2 in (4.01 m)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 15, 2014, 01:09:26 AM
I think... Hunter F.6 height was 13 ft 2 in (4.01 m)

Cool, it would fit!
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on December 16, 2014, 07:00:40 AM
FAR148 did a USMC Seahunter, somewhere along the line - I haven't been able to find the thread either here or on "What If Modellers", yet.

Typically beaytiful FAR job. :-*
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 21, 2014, 07:27:01 PM
What size radar could a Hunter have been fitted with?  The T8M had a Blue Fox, could a single seat Hunter have effectively been fitted with a Ferranti Air Pass?

What engines would have fit besides the Avon and Sapphire? Something that would have made a slightly more swept version supersonic in level flight.

Thinking single seat Hunter with a profiled radar nose, longer span, increased sweep, possibly thiner wing with increased area intakes.  Cleaned up airframe, i.e. airbrake moved and made flush, link collectors removed (with some imaginary solution to the airframe stoke problem).
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on December 21, 2014, 11:08:47 PM
With regard to engine, it depends on the timeframe.  For the late-50's up to the late-70's, it would probably be the J79 which would require some cooling scoops as it runs hotter than the Avon or Sapphire (or the ATAR 9, as the Israelis found out).

As to radar, depending on where you're selling it, perhaps the radar from the F11F-1 would work.  Parenthetically, a supersonic Hunter with the F11F's supersonic drop tanks would look good.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 22, 2014, 01:11:08 AM
I wonder about a Bristol Olympus, I know it was trialled in a Canberra, could a Hunter be adapted to fit one?  What it could be as there is only 10cm difference in diameter between the two (just over a mm in 1/72) I could just pretend my Hunter version has a deeper fuselage. 


 A simpler way forward would be a reheated Avon or Sapphire but then I need extra fuel.  How about the number of cannon are reduced to one or two and it / they are repositioned from under the nose to above it, or under the fuselage, maybe even the wing roots as done on the Gnat.  This would free up the former cannon / ammunition pack space for fuel.  If I sweep the wing back further I could also increase cord hence fuel capacity.  The logical replacement for this super Hunter would be the SAAB Draken as the was no follow on Hawker model produced.

What I am thinking is an Australian Hunter family, maybe a super Hunter, maybe a Sea Hunter as follow ons for the Hawker products that had initially been assembled then manufactured in Australia from the early thirties.

  CAC is sponsored by the government to produce sea planes, bombers, general purpose aircraft and aero engines, as well as develop an indigenous design capability while De Havilland assemble and build commercial and general aviation aircraft.  There is a perceived need to manufacture fighters, light bombers and support aircraft, in Australia, not just for the RAAF, but also for the RAN NAS (naval air service) and the Army Air Corps.  The selection of the Hawker Fury, Demon, Hart, Nimrod, Osprey and Audax for the three services saw Hawker being selected to establish a production facility in Australia, Fishermans Bend adjacent to CAC to be exact, and at the same time CAC were awarded the contract to manufacture the Rolls Royce Kestrel.

As war approached the RAAF selected the Hurricane as their first modern fighter along with the Henley as a fast light bomber.  CAC was awarded a license to manufacture the Merlin and negotiations were initiated to manufacture, not only, a .303" calibre version of the Browning M1919, but also the larger M2 and M3 .50" calibres HMGs.  Hawker Australia also produced Gloster Gladiators for the RAN and Army before developing navalised versions of the Hurricane and Henley as well as fighter bomber, dive bomber and torpedo bomber versions.  Hawkers ramped up production to supply Hurricanes and Henleys to the UK, NZ and South Africa at the same time as tooling up for the Typhoon then Tempest and Fury before the end of the war with CAC producing the Napier Sabres and Bristol Centurus. 

Post war Hawker Australia continued to produce Furies and Sea Furies then Hawks and Seahawks a Tay powered production version of the P1081 for the RAAF and RAN, which served well in Korea and allowed Australia to wait for a fully sorted version of the Hunter F6.  The Sea Hunter followed then a FGA Hunter before the final Super Hunter and its variants.

In this Althistoty CAC, as well as manufacturing Merlins, Centaurus, Wasp, Twin Wasp, Hercules, Nene, Tay and Avon, would still have built the Wirraway but also the B-25 Mitchell and A-36 before switching to the P-51B Mustang, then Sabre and FJ-4 Fury.  De Havilland, in addition to the Tigermoth, would build the DH Flamingo, developing ASW patrol, light bomber and improved military transport versions, before switching to the Mosquito, then Hornet, Sea Hornet, Vampire, Venom and Sea Venom before amalgamating with Hawker Australia.

Need to think this out a bit as there are a lot of missing aircraft from the RAAFs WWII OOB to cover but I'll get there.  Basically I want Hunters in the RAAF, RAN (including at see) and in the Army (which has a USMC type air element).  I also want to do a super Hunter that may or may not be supersonic in level flight but will have radar, missiles etc and remain in production longer becoming a big export earner.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 22, 2014, 02:43:27 AM
Some inspiration from Clave:

(http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/fantasy_3/F279_Hunter_Israel.jpg)
(http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/fantasy_1/F041_Hunter_FGA9_China.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 22, 2014, 02:44:08 AM
Hawker P.1128, based on a proposal for a business jet, with side-by-side seating for two aircrew and six passengers. It was to be powered by two small Bristol Orpheus engines.

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/falcon1_photos/Hunters/HawkerP.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 22, 2014, 02:45:40 AM
Supersonic Hunter developments:

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/HawkerP-1083.png)

P.1090. 500 wing from the P.1083 with radar, reheated Gyron & enlarged intakes:

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/HawkerHunterP-1090.jpg)

P.1091 Delta Hunter.  Transonic at mach 0.98 with reheated Sapphire 4.  Would have been supersonic in a shallow dive.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/HawkerHunterP-1091.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on December 22, 2014, 05:15:20 AM
Kit (PR19_Kit) is building a very nice two-seater Hunter using those high speed wings
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 22, 2014, 10:49:37 AM
That is nice
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 07, 2015, 10:58:05 AM
P.1083 with radar nose, F11F-1 "supersonic" tanks on inboard hardpoints, and Red Top or Blue Dolphin missiles on outboard hardpoints.

Same with the 3-foot fuselage extension advocated by the CFE for Hunters.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 07, 2015, 07:15:08 PM
Is there a P.1083 kit or conversion available?

I am really zeroing in on a personal build theme of Hawker Australia being established pre WWII and providing multiple generations of fighter aircraft for the RAAF (and / or possibly Army Aviation / RAN FAA / RAM).  It would be part of an Australian pre war industrialisation along the lines of Canadas, setting up to provide material, not just for the AMF but for the Commonwealth as a whole.  This would slowly ramp up from 1932 instead of waiting until 1940/41 and then panicking.

It would start with either the Fury then maybe the Gladiator and move through Hurricane, Typhoon Tempest, Fury, Hawk, P.1081, Hunter and then P.1083, possibly (definitely  ;)) navalised versions of each.  I would also like to do a Demon, Hart, Osprey, Henley etc.

CAC would still do the Wirraway but probably not the Boomerang, but building early model Mustangs (Bs, Cs, maybe even A-36s), before settling on the D, as well as possibly Douglas A-20 and North American B-25 possibly then A/B-26 Invader would be nice.  CA15, Fury, Sabre, FJ-4 and a land based equivalent.  Kestrel, Wasp, Double Wasp, Merlin (Meteor), Sabre, possibly Hercules and Centaurus, Ghost, Goblin, Nene, Tay, Avon, Olympus, Spey.

De Havilland Australia would produce the Tiger Moth, Dragon Rapide, Flamingo, Mosquito, Hornet, Sea Hornet, Vampire, Venom, Sea Venom, Comet, Nimrod.

DAP/GAF would be initiated earlier and start building Blenheims pre war then Beauforts but switching to Beaufighters much earlier, Lancaster, Lincoln, Shackleton, Canberra (B20 and Olympus powered B-57 type), Vulcan  ;D

1960s will be harder as there will be a reduction in both the number of aircraft types but also manufacturers.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 07, 2015, 09:35:37 PM
Freightdog did make them, and may still make them; not sure if they still have any on offer but it's worth checking.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 07, 2015, 09:39:24 PM
Thanks I'll check it out and if there are any I will attempt to reclaim my Master card from SWMBO.

Not what I was looking for but pretty cool anyway, AI20 radar nose and Blue Jay.  It would go well with the P.1083.

http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=981&osCsid=c7fd614595e0d830dece0dbe6d9c0ab9 (http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=981&osCsid=c7fd614595e0d830dece0dbe6d9c0ab9)

Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on May 13, 2015, 11:22:07 AM
Supersonic side-by-side two seater - Hunter T.7+P.1130 nose and radar (from Freightdog)+P.1083 wings+(possibly)Lightning T.4/T.5 windscreen and canopy (for a more streamlined windscreen angle - much like what the single F.3 had).
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on May 13, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
Nice, AW interceptor I assume, or a strike bus?

Maybe an early multimode Airpass?  I have been shouted down before but I am sure the Ferranti Blue Parrot was also known as the Airpass III, so maybe an Airpass IV or V?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on May 14, 2015, 01:51:25 AM
Has anyone considered adapting the Fieri style sugar scoop air intakes to the Hunter?  Do not recall any what-if or RW concepts involving that style of intake. 
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on May 14, 2015, 02:04:30 AM
Has anyone considered adapting the Fieri style sugar scoop air intakes to the Hunter?  Do not recall any what-if or RW concepts involving that style of intake.


Yeah baby, don't forget the flames.  :icon_fsm:

(http://p.fod4.com/p/media/149c0c722a/xr8XqeJiRdqk0Tlw4qhe_Guy%20Fieri%20Wave%20Arms.gif)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on May 14, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
Nice, AW interceptor I assume, or a strike bus?

Maybe an early multimode Airpass?  I have been shouted down before but I am sure the Ferranti Blue Parrot was also known as the Airpass III, so maybe an Airpass IV or V?
I as thinking of it as an AW interceptor with potential strike capability.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on May 14, 2015, 11:20:54 AM
Has anyone considered adapting the Fieri style sugar scoop air intakes to the Hunter?  Do not recall any what-if or RW concepts involving that style of intake.
I could see that for a developed P.1083 with an Avon 300.  Slightly off subject, but I could very easily see such intakes fitted to a Draken, too.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on June 28, 2015, 11:15:28 PM
I have tried and failed to find a P.1083 conversion, Freightdog used to make one but its no longer listed. 

Also I'm tossing up whether to buy an Italeri 1/48 Hunter F6, I know there's no conversion kits available but should be able to scratch build a radar nose and clean up the fuselage.  Anyone know anything about that kit?

The Revell 1/72 seems nice but I have never seen one in stock here or down south.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on June 28, 2015, 11:51:04 PM
I believe the Italieri kit is a remolding of the Academy kit, so it should be fairly good.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on June 29, 2015, 10:43:39 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on June 30, 2015, 12:03:12 AM
Well now I have bought the 1/48 Hunter I suppose I had better read back through here for ideas.  Still very tempted to do a RN or RAN FAA FAW Sea Hunter, without conversion kits it will be hard to do a Super Sea Hunter but an improved one shouldn't be too hard.

Thinking scribed wing folds and maybe airbrakes (I intend to leave off the under fuselage kit item), re-profiled (radar) nose, must do something about the link collection fairings, missiles (Sidewinder, Firestreak, Redtop?).

Ideas anyone?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on June 30, 2015, 06:49:50 AM
FAR148's build is over on What If.

Here's the link: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,29145.0.html (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,29145.0.html)

Beauty shots are on page 7. :-*

Seriously beautiful build but I'd love to see something similar in RAN FAA colours. ;)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on June 30, 2015, 07:10:44 AM
I have tried and failed to find a P.1083 conversion, Freightdog used to make one but its no longer listed. 

Also I'm tossing up whether to buy an Italeri 1/48 Hunter F6, I know there's no conversion kits available but should be able to scratch build a radar nose and clean up the fuselage.  Anyone know anything about that kit?

The Revell 1/72 seems nice but I have never seen one in stock here or down south.

I think Colin at Freightdog has said that the P.1083 master needs re-doing, but he is planning to resurrect it in the future. However I can't find the thread over on What If where I thought he said that, so don't take it as gospel.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on June 30, 2015, 07:12:02 AM
Nice, AW interceptor I assume, or a strike bus?

Maybe an early multimode Airpass?  I have been shouted down before but I am sure the Ferranti Blue Parrot was also known as the Airpass III, so maybe an Airpass IV or V?

I don't know about Blue Parrot being called AIRPASS III, but it was certainly based on the same electronics as the AIRPASS.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on June 30, 2015, 10:24:46 AM
I have tried and failed to find a P.1083 conversion, Freightdog used to make one but its no longer listed. 

Also I'm tossing up whether to buy an Italeri 1/48 Hunter F6, I know there's no conversion kits available but should be able to scratch build a radar nose and clean up the fuselage.  Anyone know anything about that kit?

The Revell 1/72 seems nice but I have never seen one in stock here or down south.

I think Colin at Freightdog has said that the P.1083 master needs re-doing, but he is planning to resurrect it in the future. However I can't find the thread over on What If where I thought he said that, so don't take it as gospel.
It's one of the threads in the Freightdog Models sub-forum and his answer was in response to a question from me about renewed availability.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on June 30, 2015, 12:00:07 PM
Thanks for that guys, that USMC Hunter is really something.  If Freightdog rereleases the Super Hunter I will have to get the Revel 1/72 but looking at my Italeri example I am tempted to do a radar nose like the 1083.

Just found a very very interesting photo on page 166 of Hawker Hunter 1951-2007 of a private venture Sidewinder installation.  The outer pair of ADENs were removed and single pylons for sidewinders were fitted each side of the gun pack.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Ih5Vcy2PZXQC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=hawker+p.1083&source=bl&ots=BJ487n6gNY&sig=VCBqNbfLzRRYBIQz11Ve3_JJwaQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rQuSVevMLKexmwWM2aCoAQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=sidewinder&f=false

Very easy to model, could even delete the link catchers and say they were cycled into an internal catcher in the deleted gun space.  Combine this with the radar nose and wing mounted Firestreak / Redtop and youd really have something.  I wonder if it would have been possible to mount Firestreak in such a manner?

Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on June 30, 2015, 08:46:31 PM
I wonder if it would have been possible to mount Firestreak in such a manner?

Firestreak and Red Top required a substantial missile support pack in the aircraft, close to the pylon. You might be able to incorporate it in the space vacated by two of the gun magazines, but it'd be pretty tight and fiddly.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on November 01, 2015, 12:13:43 AM
Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.

Just re-reading the whole topic and this is pretty much what I want to do, I already have the Freightdog P.1109 conversion but have discovered from them that a manufacturer has lost the masters for the P.1083 which is why that conversion is no longer available, the Revell F.6 and FGR.9 not being currently available at the moment is another issue, both for being able to acquire one myself and for it being worthwhile for Freightdog to make new masters. 

What I would really like to do is do a P1083/P.1109B cross in 1/48.  With appropriate plans I am confident I could do it, because while I lack the detailing and painting skills I so admire (envy) in some of you, I do a pretty good job fabricating/forming/shaping pretty much what I want from a sufficiently detailed plan in a suitable material.  My real ambition would actually be to 3D print the required parts but that would make detailed drawings even more critical. 

Anyone know if any plans drawings of the various hunter concepts, prototypes and versions are available and if there are how I can get them?

Would love the tandem two seated as well as the P.1083 and 1109B, also a look at the various air brake options.

My thinking is the Hunter evolves, from the superb and long lived aircraft it was anyway, into an even more versatile and longer lived type through the development and production of an equivalent of my latest inspiration, the Dassault Etendard.  The September 2015 edition of Warships IFR has a photo of a pair of Super Etendards on p.36 that at first glance (without glasses) I took to be Hunters, this got me thinking that the Hunter could have followed similar evolution but two decades earlier to fill a similar role in the RN, RCN and RAN as well as land based versions with Hunter, and perhaps some Super Sabre customers.

P.1040, P.1081, P.1083/1109 are developed pretty much as UK equivalents to the Grumman Panther, Cougar and Tiger, entering service in a similar but slightly later time frame.

End result is (because of the Korean war experience) the Hunter is co-developed by UK, Australia and the Netherlands as a replacement for the Seafires, Furies and Fireflies on the 1942 type Light Fleet carriers to permit the their continued effective service into the 1960s, in single and tandem seat day and all weather fighter and strike variants.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on November 01, 2015, 10:53:12 AM
Hawker Sea Hunter, 1960 (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,29547.0.html)

(http://a.imageshack.us/img190/4069/seahunter4.jpg)

Hawker Herne (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,30634.0/highlight,hawker+herne.html).

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6950/1001691q.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on November 01, 2015, 08:53:56 PM
very nice pair of (former) Hunters and very much what I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on November 01, 2015, 09:48:51 PM
Quote
P.1040, P.1081, P.1083/1109 are developed pretty much as UK equivalents to the Grumman Panther, Cougar and Tiger, entering service in a similar but slightly later time frame.

Funny you should frame it that way, my P.1083/P.1109 mix will have Tiger drop tanks.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on November 01, 2015, 11:03:51 PM
I mentioned it that way because that is how you wrote it back on page one of the topic, interestingly, while I came up with the idea of a FAA Super Hunter independently your terminology was simple and elegant so I decided to use it. 

Really seeing this aircraft as a British equivalent to the Tiger that evolves into an alternative to the Super Etendard (really odd, my auto correct keeps changing "Etendard" to "Standard"), starts as a fall back to the Scimitar, or perhaps even a deliberate plan to provide a new generation of multi-role combat aircraft for the 1942 and 43 Light Fleet carriers, as well as minimally modified Armoured Fleet carriers to keep them viable into the 60s or later.  Remembering the USMC Hunter on another site (Britmodeller?) a possibility could have been the type ends up being adopted by the USN for use on the CVS Essex conversions instead of Skyhawk, with the possibility of the type then being adopted by the JMSDF to equip there CVS fleet (they desired the capability from the late 50s, but found it politically impossible to achieve).

Don't know if its worth going to a Super Duper Hunter (Super Tiger equivalent) though because it likely would be too large and heavy for the smaller carriers while more modern types would be available for the larger ships.  Besides it doesn't fit the overall idea I'm working on as part of my similar but much richer Australia concept.  As far as the P.1083/1109 hybrid goes it is the pinnacle of Hawker Australia / Hawker De Havilland Australia fighter production that started with either the Hawker Fury and Demon in the early 1930s or Sea Fury in the late 40s.  Basically the RAAF follows their post war plans, concentrating on strategic bombers, long range fighters and interceptors but almost completely overlooking fighter bombers, attack and medium bombers, the types most suitable for CAS, maritime strike, interdiction, the missions most critical to the Army, RAN and RAM.

In this richer Australia the RAAF is similar to reality but a number of gaps are filled and types they really operated are supplemented by other types, the big change is the other services gain control of the missions critical to them.  This is where Hawker wins out with their fighter types serving with the RAN FAA, Army Air Corps and RAM Air Corps though to the Super Hunter before switching to newer types.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on November 12, 2015, 11:47:05 PM
Okay, I'll have to find it again, but I've got drawings for a four-seat. 2+2. Hunter trainer (the idea was a crew trainer for the TSR-2 as well as a larger "Admiral's barge").  It's still a doable concept and it's on my "to do" list.  Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.

Is the forward transport joint the one where the forward fuselage joins to the centre barrel just aft of the forward intake lip?  I'm trying to picture this (19mm in 1/48) extension and decide whether it would look good on my Italeri Hunter.

Also thinking I will delete the airbrake and either engrave some flush Sabre type replacements, or even see if there are some suitable accessory ones for a Sabre or similar I would buy.  The Sabrinas would go, the justification is the stretch (which also moved the cannons 3' forward) was found to alleviate the original problem of links striking the fuselage.

A scratch built radar nose of suitable profile depending on radar selected, an arrester hook (the PR10 had one so I will use that for reference), catapult launching strop attachments and a folding wing will finish it off.  Just a thought, if it has a proper, rather than just the ranging radar, the instrument panel will need to be modified too. 

I am not brave enough to do the P.1083 wing but may try increasing the sweep of the kit wing (and hopefully remember to modify the undercarriage to fit).

End result a Hawker Demon transonic fighter bomber, initially developed as an army all weather attack fighter, but then also adopted by the RAN FAA and RAM AC due to its ability to be adapted to operate from the RANs older, smaller carriers.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on January 07, 2018, 11:29:00 AM
If you want a refresher on the Hawker Hunter, take quick hop to this page http://www.airvectors.net/avhunt_1.html (http://www.airvectors.net/avhunt_1.html) where there are lots of good user data, profiles including some paper designs.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 07, 2018, 12:47:59 PM
Okay, I'll have to find it again, but I've got drawings for a four-seat. 2+2. Hunter trainer (the idea was a crew trainer for the TSR-2 as well as a larger "Admiral's barge").  It's still a doable concept and it's on my "to do" list.  Of course, the most obvious "whiff" is the CFE's suggestion of a three-foot extension just aft of the forward transport joint to enlarge the fuselage fuel tank.  That may get added to my P.1083/P.1109B cross.

Is the forward transport joint the one where the forward fuselage joins to the centre barrel just aft of the forward intake lip?  I'm trying to picture this (19mm in 1/48) extension and decide whether it would look good on my Italeri Hunter.
A scratch built radar nose of suitable profile depending on radar selected, an arrester hook (the PR10 had one so I will use that for reference), catapult launching strop attachments and a folding wing will finish it off.  Just a thought, if it has a proper, rather than just the ranging radar, the instrument panel will need to be modified too. 
{SNIP}
I am not brave enough to do the P.1083 wing but may try increasing the sweep of the kit wing (and hopefully remember to modify the undercarriage to fit).
Yes, that's the joint (basically where the split is on the Matchbox kit to allow either nose to be used).

IIRC, the intakes on the P.1083 wing were not anymore swept than the standard intakes and the increased sweep was outboard from there.  That might assist in modifying the undercarriage for the more swept wing.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 07, 2018, 01:46:08 PM
Thanks, maybe it could even be wing transplant from something else, maybe a F-105.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: perttime on January 07, 2018, 03:44:39 PM
Yeah, read that one.  IIRC the changes didn't aid performance.
Cannot find that article right now - but I recall it was only slightly faster with the area-rule-fairing. Not enough to bother.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on January 07, 2018, 04:32:59 PM
F-105 wing transplant otta be looking wild and fast...... :smiley:
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on January 07, 2018, 09:19:32 PM
Or maybe RF-84F wing?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 07, 2018, 10:49:10 PM
Or maybe RF-84F wing?

Or a modified lightning wing after I buy one of the Freightdog VG conversions.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on January 08, 2018, 02:07:56 AM
Or maybe RF-84F wing?

Using my WIP Hunter Nighthawk NF.1 as the victim here is what it could look like. The wings are under the fuselage. I'd also use the F-84 tail.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4591/39531112512_9fab38b5ec_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23eehvo)Hunter-RF-84F (https://flic.kr/p/23eehvo)
by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on January 08, 2018, 02:08:22 AM
Or maybe RF-84F wing?

Or a modified lightning wing after I buy one of the Freightdog VG conversions.

I'd like to see that.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Kelmola on January 08, 2018, 05:11:11 AM
How about a straight-winged COIN variant? Make it a two-seater if it's supposed to be a FAC too.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 08, 2018, 12:11:36 PM
How about a straight-winged COIN variant? Make it a two-seater if it's supposed to be a FAC too.

Interesting.  Maybe a bash of a hunter and a seahawk to give you a swept wing seahawk and a straight wing hunter, i. e. a nose transplant.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: KiwiZac on January 12, 2018, 04:56:36 AM
I like the tandem two-seater Greg shared - VERY Hawker - and the fake Fitter. I do love the idea of an RAAF Hunter in Avon Sabre marks, too.

It'd be nice to see someone else tackle an RNZAF Hunter, I did one in 2006:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4208/35550569181_06fa5f3f76_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WatXDX)NZ66311 (https://flic.kr/p/WatXDX) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/83399146@N05/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 12, 2018, 08:23:20 AM
Is there an after-market product for the gun bay/package on the Hawker Hunter?  48th scale of course. 

Also, for anyone that has an interest in probe and drogue type IFR, where would you place the IFR apparatus?  In one of the gun ports as was done on the F2H-3/4 Banshee?  Along side the fuselage as was done on the A-4 Skyhawk?  On top of the air intake as was done on the Harrier?  Folding or fixed? 
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on July 12, 2018, 08:30:58 AM
Also, for anyone that has an interest in probe and drogue type IFR, where would you place the IFR apparatus?  In one of the gun ports as was done on the F2H-3/4 Banshee?  Along side the fuselage as was done on the A-4 Skyhawk?  On top of the air intake as was done on the Harrier?  Folding or fixed?

I'd go with a Harrier or A-7 type folding probe to either the fuselage just above the intake or to the top of the intake (starboard side, obviously).

BTW, I have an 1/48 A-7 probe unit that could go spare, if you need it.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 12, 2018, 09:42:13 AM
@ Guy/Old Wombat - Thanks for the offer but I have plenty of both types you described plus several other types including the original style AV-8A/C|Harrier GR IFR
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on July 12, 2018, 11:03:54 AM
Is there an after-market product for the gun bay/package on the Hawker Hunter?  48th scale of course. 

Also, for anyone that has an interest in probe and drogue type IFR, where would you place the IFR apparatus?  In one of the gun ports as was done on the F2H-3/4 Banshee?  Along side the fuselage as was done on the A-4 Skyhawk?  On top of the air intake as was done on the Harrier?  Folding or fixed?
I'd argue for something like the Harrier's fixed probe with the probe mounted so that it won't cause interference with the intake airflow and any spilled fuel during transfer will not get sucked into the inlet.  Alternatively, perhaps a F-100 style wing-mounted refueling probe?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on July 14, 2018, 12:20:24 AM
I wonder what sort of elegant, functional shapes the British would have come up with had modern composite technology been available for the Hunter's wing.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on July 14, 2018, 01:23:35 AM
How is this Daryl? Not the most modern wing but looks cool. RF-84F Thunderflash wings.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1789/43386837161_639cf7af02_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/296WT7z)
Hunter-RF-84F (https://flic.kr/p/296WT7z) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on July 14, 2018, 11:18:59 PM
Oh that's cool!
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on August 21, 2018, 09:08:51 PM
Found on FB.

From the owner of Lonewulf Models, Adrian: "first of the Cold War Models, the Hawker P.1124 target drone from 1957, this sizeable drone fits the Hunter F.6 and should look pretty spectacular. This is a test casting and I will be fitting it to the Revell Hunter. Does anyone have info on colours applied to target vehicles in this period, I was thinking orange body and yellow wings."

(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39588930_2004384876267923_8081071062952968192_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=ba8329569012719e3f244a0c7a313d22&oe=5C0D9920)

(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39745191_2004385796267831_3558014031140749312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=852d9dbc36feaf5f91f31bff510a0964&oe=5BF30EAB)

And

"I am tempted with the Delta Wing Hunter but since the Revell Hunter is a pain to get hold of it would mean basing on the Plastyk or Mistercraft Hunters which I have not looked at yet as to their quality."

(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39522350_872253686497386_5127173933233078272_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=34b683ab5b35c7fa229ca1d2c39e3498&oe=5BF46558)

I asked him to look at the Revell Hunter as well. How many of you would buy this if it was available? I'm down for two.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on August 22, 2018, 01:12:41 AM
Yeah, I'd go for at least two.  That would go so good with a radar nose...
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: apophenia on August 22, 2018, 07:03:30 AM
Does anyone have info on colours applied to target vehicles in this period, I was thinking orange body and yellow wings."

RAF Jindivik target drones were all-over orange if that helps. Meteor drone conversions had a scheme similar to what you describe - yellow wings with a fuselage (and engine nacelles) divided vertically - orange below, yellow above.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on August 23, 2018, 01:12:59 AM
Is there an after-market product for the gun bay/package on the Hawker Hunter?  48th scale of course. 
The Flightpath detailing set has a lot of things, but not that .  :(  I don't know about any of the other detailing sets.  That the Flgihtpath set doesn't is surprising because they do make a set for that package in 1/72.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on August 25, 2018, 03:20:53 AM
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.

(http://photos.smugmug.com/BTS-2/i-gP6svRH/0/5c0f6ad6/L/1325127-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: tankmodeler on August 27, 2018, 10:29:53 PM
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.
Yeahhhh, but if you do that, you forever give up any chance of a radar in the nose. Kinda limits the capabilities of a late 50s early 60s fighter, no?

Paul
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on August 30, 2018, 01:21:10 PM
All it had a was a small ranging radar, put the dish in a teardrop housing under the nose.  ;D

(http://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/medium/1/teardrop-headlight-david-lee-thompson.jpg)

 ;) ;D
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on August 30, 2018, 06:36:39 PM
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.
Yeahhhh, but if you do that, you forever give up any chance of a radar in the nose. Kinda limits the capabilities of a late 50s early 60s fighter, no?

Paul

Well there was this one. a probe could go in there too I think.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: tankmodeler on August 31, 2018, 09:10:44 AM
All it had a was a small ranging radar, put the dish in a teardrop housing under the nose.  ;D
No, I realise that, and a podded radar or nose like the Sabre Dog would be OK for the existing radar, but I'd imagine that an updated Hunter in the 60s would absolutely need a bigger radar to manage the Sparrows or Firestreak missiles it would have been armed with.

Paul
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on August 31, 2018, 09:53:44 AM
Wouldn’t an updated Hunter with those missiles be a pointless exercise and bit of polishing
a turd when compared to what else was around in period?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on August 31, 2018, 12:29:07 PM
Wouldn’t an updated Hunter with those missiles be a pointless exercise and bit of polishing
a turd when compared to what else was around in period?
Depends on the full extent of the upgrades.  A combination of proposals could produce a suitable lightweight contender.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on August 31, 2018, 02:24:17 PM
By the time you got done, there wouldn't be much Hunter left.  ;D

A lightweight contender for what? The whole LWF notion ended up going
nowhere as the reality was they had to grow/get heavier to be able to be actually
useful in RW combat.

The Hunter is gorgeous and all, but the only reason it soldiered on so long was
because of ministerial and corporate incompetence in getting it into service,
and even more screwed up, developing a replacement.
 :icon_zombie:
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Kelmola on August 31, 2018, 06:33:33 PM
By the time 1960's roll around, "upgrading" Hunter for the UK (or any other customer, really) is only meaningful for ground attack as was done IRL, or unless something is preventing the nation from acquiring modern fighters (but then again, where would the upgrades come from?). If it's internal politics that's preventing the purchase, well, upgrading Hunter with a radar nose, entirely new avionics, afterburner, strenghtening the wings, etc. will soon end up costing more than a new fighter would even if psychologically it would be easier to accept upgrades instead of new purchases (even the Swiss who had this problem did not upgrade them for air-to-air).

Before someone brings up the Vietnam War, MiG-17 was viable only because of unrealistic rules of engagement and faulty tactics on the US side, and contrary to the belief, most planes were not shot down after a dogfight but were surprised and never knew they were being attacked until they started getting missile/gun hits. After the US returned to the North in 1972 with relaxed RoE and better training, it was pretty much proven that subsonics don't stand much chance against supersonics because the latter can dictate when and how combat is engaged (ie. only when they're holding the advantage).

Beyond visual range missile truck is not very realistic either if it has to deal with enemy fighters, which is why the US Navy abandoned the F6D Missileer concept already in the 1950's (and subsonic interceptor in the age of supersonic bombers makes the concept even less realistic).
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 02, 2018, 04:24:52 AM
I think the real world cases of the Swiss and Singaporean Hunters provide fair examples of what was realistic with the upgrade front with sidewinders and some protective sensors.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image.jpg2_zpsfbdttczj.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image.jpg3_zps7yzfuhlr.jpg)

that said, the P.1099 would also provide an interesting option here at least as far as the radar nose but it looks odd in my view.

(http://q-zon-fighterplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Hunter-P.1109.jpg)
(http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/content/post-war-military-aircraft/hunter/1109.jpg)

If one wanted to go right out there, the P.1100 might be an option too:

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/Hawkerp-1100.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 02, 2018, 04:28:42 AM
Hmmm...mention of the MiG-17 makes me wonder about some USN operated Hawker Hunters in aggressor markings instead of the A-4 Skyhawks:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image.jpg1_zps6qiiusd6.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on September 02, 2018, 06:05:36 AM

that said, the P.1099 would also provide an interesting option here at least as far as the radar nose but it looks odd in my view.

([url]http://q-zon-fighterplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Hunter-P.1109.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/content/post-war-military-aircraft/hunter/1109.jpg[/url])

If one wanted to go right out there, the P.1100 might be an option too:

([url]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/Hawkerp-1100.jpg[/url])


The P.1100 is sweet.

If you go to this page, https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=14398, (https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=14398,) there a nice scratch build of the P.1083 version.

(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r296/dwomby/Models/Hawker%20Huntress/Finals%208%20Copy_zpsmk4fzc8s.jpg~original)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on September 03, 2018, 09:44:29 PM
I can't recall where but I did read that the P1099 was proposed as and upgrade path for a big chunk of the RAF Hunter fleet as well as export models.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on September 08, 2018, 10:48:52 AM
Just a modeling thought, use the exhaust end of a Draken as a starting point for modeling a Hunter with afterburner?
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on September 08, 2018, 06:45:28 PM
Evan, try a Grppen ---- some time ago I matched up a Revell Grippen fuselage half with a Revell Hunter fuselage half  ---- you'd be surprised at how close they are.

Personally I'm not too surprised, I read that BAE 'loaned' a lot of their staff to SAAB.  Another example I've seen at the airport which could reflect that, just look at a SAAB 340 --- it looks a lot like a Jetstream 41 (tail plane is in a different position though)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on September 09, 2018, 02:34:25 AM
I was thinking of the Draken more because, especially if I use bits from Revell's early-model Draken, it gives me a place to locate the braking parachute even with the afterburner.  Now, a Hunter upgraded and re-engine with a RM12 or F404/F414 could be very interesting.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on July 26, 2019, 10:32:26 PM
Been thinking a bit on the Hunter and its possibilities and an idea struck me, how about the UK supplies Hawks (as in land based P1040 / Sea Hawks) as well as productionised P.1052 and P.1081, Hunters, and productionised P.1083 and P.1099 (and hybrids there of) and then maybe Lightnings to Israel instead of France supplying successive Mysteres, Super Mystere and Mirages etc.  Israel contributes requirements that are incorporated into the base versions as well as upgrades before things are brought to a halt by sanctions post Six Day War.  Israel then goes it alone developing their own production version of an enhanced Hunter (and Lightning) as the Kfir……..


Normally I would have Australia doing all this but the simple truth is good international relations and a stable economic / strategic environment means there often isn't the justification of such developments.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 27, 2019, 03:32:25 AM
Some inspiration:

(http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/fantasy_3/F279_Hunter_Israel.jpg)
(https://cdn-live.warthunder.com/uploads/b7/28103ceca1aa40690383ae4a752550548c9e7e_mq/LEnHJno.jpg)
(https://cdn-live.warthunder.com/uploads/c8/73cbdde8d90d11fda5b0e6e28208b23cc1fa97_mq/HeaderImage.png)

Some other possible schemes:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKRdlIdYFpjh_5rfNDvHqvRMbYS1OsdLOmfze7pzzw2GtyMsf9)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 04, 2019, 12:19:54 AM
Very nice, I missed these somehow.

Just had an idea to justify development of several generations of Hawker fighters post war. This relates to the revelation the Sir John Collins was advised that HMAS Melbourne would not be able to operate new aircraft, such as the Scimitar, when they became available, with his response apparently being to coverup this fact to prevent the government cancelling Melbourne and disposing of Sydney.

How about instead of this he goes direct to Hawkers, having recalled that the P.1081, a swept wing evolution of the Seahawk, had been offered to the RAAF, and enquiring how difficult it would be to bring the type into production for the RAN.  Hawkers were able to do this due to the high level of commonality with the Seahawk, and further more were able to offer a navalised Hunter for delivery after 1958, with a transonic, mildly supersonic, radar equipped version following in 1960.  The entire thing was sold to the Australian Government as a RN FAA program and to the British government as a RAN FAA program, each government placing orders for aircraft on the assumption the other had taken all the risks.
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on December 04, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Very nice, I missed these somehow.

Just had an idea to justify development of several generations of Hawker fighters post war. This relates to the revelation the Sir John Collins was advised that HMAS Melbourne would not be able to operate new aircraft, such as the Scimitar, when they became available, with his response apparently being to coverup this fact to prevent the government cancelling Melbourne and disposing of Sydney.

How about instead of this he goes direct to Hawkers, having recalled that the P.1081, a swept wing evolution of the Seahawk, had been offered to the RAAF, and enquiring how difficult it would be to bring the type into production for the RAN.  Hawkers were able to do this due to the high level of commonality with the Seahawk, and further more were able to offer a navalised Hunter for delivery after 1958, with a transonic, mildly supersonic, radar equipped version following in 1960.  The entire thing was sold to the Australian Government as a RN FAA program and to the British government as a RAN FAA program, each government placing orders for aircraft on the assumption the other had taken all the risks.

Goodness, gracious!  Service chiefs lying to bureaucrats and politicians?   Whatever next?  ;)
Title: Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on December 04, 2019, 01:09:58 PM
Turnabout is fair play and the bureaucrats and politicians lie enough.

Beyond that, there are two conversions I would love to see for Hunter kits.  The 3-foot extension at the front transport joint that the CFE wanted for greater range (I also agree with Roy Braybrook that it would make the aircraft even more aesthetically appealing) and the P.1091 delta-winged version.  I could see that developed as a P.1091B with some careful area-ruling, then developed with the CFE extension, Fieri intakes (Hunter looks made for those), radar, and a more powerful engine as a supersonic interceptor, then as a multi-role fighter.