Author Topic: A slightly different New Zealand  (Read 2839 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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A slightly different New Zealand
« on: December 29, 2011, 06:06:39 AM »
Hi folks,

As many of you will know New Zealand has had a somewhat left-leaning political establishment over the last two decades.  What if this went just a little bit further left?  Here's my scenario:

During 1984 the honourable David Lange led Labour to a landslide victory, becoming at the age of 41 New Zealand's youngest prime minister of the 20th century.  Not long after coming to office, he triggered a dispute with the United States by refusing to allow nuclear-powered or nuclear-armed ships into New Zealand waters.  This dispute between New Zealand and the United States resulted in the effective ending of the ANZUS between the United States, Australia and New Zealand.

On the night of 10th July 1985 the Greenpeace ship "Rainbow Warrior” which had been in Auckland Harbour for the previous three days, preparing for a protest voyage to the French nuclear test site at Moruroa Atoll was sunk by French commandos. Massive public outrage followed.  In one of the highlights of this period, a widely-televised Oxford Union debate in 1985 showcased Lange, a skilled orator, arguing for the proposition that the western powers were out of control.  He argued strongly that New Zealand could no longer consider the main Western governments as legitimate guarantors of democracy.

In 1987, New Zealand went to the polls once again, this time in the midst of a worldwide economic downturn.  Coupled with ongoing public resentment for the way New Zealand had been perceived as being poorly dealt with, resulted in the Lange's Labour sweeping to power with an even larger majority.

Into this environment swept the charismatic Soviet Leader Mikhail Gorbachev.  Within weeks of the 1987 election victory, the Soviet Leader visited New Zealand.  On the last day of his visit, both himself and the New Zealand PM announced a new treaty for the protection of both New Zealand and the surrounding oceans from Western aggression.  A significant part of this treaty was the denouncement of all nuclear testing within the Pacific Ocean. 

To help enforce the treaty, the Soviet Union would do two things:

Firstly, they would station a number of warships (non-nuclear) within New Zealand’s ports.

Secondly, and most significantly, they offered to totally revamp the entire New Zealand military, starting with the Air Force. Within 6 months the aging A-4Ks were replaced with MiG-29s fresh of the production line.

Later in the 1990s a fleet of Su-30 heavy fighters was also sought.  The following represents one of these aircraft (Any excuse to re-use one of Richard's profiles):



Your thoughts, contributions?

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Maverick

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 06:30:51 AM »
An interesting take on things.

I'm assuming we're not talking a "People's Republic of New Zealand" per se with all the resultant Communist influences, rather just a very left-leaning Western cultured nation?

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Geoff

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 12:48:56 AM »
I like this idea - lots of modelling potential.

OK I was thinking an export MP version of the "Bear" to patrol the Economic Zone, and annoy the Aussies (SORRY)lol. :))

Offline M.A.D

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 07:21:07 AM »
Hey Greg did you say
Quote
A slightly different New Zealand
??

That RNZAF Flanker would be the New Zealand Defence budget  ;D

But seriously........great profile!!


M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 07:43:46 PM »
Revisiting this Backstory, had some more ideas.....
As Maritime Patrol would be a serious mission of the RNZAF in protection it’s maritime zone against incursion, I’d say it would be more likely they’d need to replace their Lockheed P-3 Orion's due to spare part shortages, say with Ilyushin Il-38; just as their Lockheed C-130 Hercules would need replacement by Ilyushin IL-76 'Candid's'.
As much as I like the prospect of RNZAF Flanker's, they are really outside New Zealand’s operational scope, and would stick with MiG-29 Fulcrum's, some Antonov An-26 Curl's

M.A.D

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 02:07:01 AM »
Maybe some AN72Ps?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 11:05:31 AM »
Maybe some AN72Ps?
Those would seem more promising; perhaps even acquiring some AN-71 Madcap aircraft for command and control purposes.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 12:31:24 PM »
Interesting.  New Zealand was and remains rather important to both the Western Alliance and the Soviet Union/Russia.   Both for the same reason.   Russian communications and reconnaissance satellites because of their high, arcing, polar orbits come closest to Earth in the region of New Zealand.   This has allowed the US to spy, on the Russian spysats and commsats much more easily, as they swoop close in.

Potentially, during the Cold War, this meant that New Zealand would be the ideal place to base anti-Satellite missiles.  While the speed of the satellites would be higher they would be closer so shorter ranged, faster intercepting missiles could work.

New Zealand, also because of it's position, in the deep, southern Pacific Ocean was also an ideal staging place to Antarctica and it's why, even after their expulsion from the A**US Treaty, they allowed the US to continue to stage flights through New Zealand airbases from the US to Antarctica.   This would make New Zealand essential in the ongoing fight against the super-Secret Nazi Antarctic bases.    It is from here, that secret interception flights against the Nazi flying saucers occurred.    ;)

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 06:04:46 AM »
As much as I like the prospect of RNZAF Flanker's, they are really outside New Zealand’s operational scope
I've read that when the A-4 replacement programme was in full swing in the late 1990s Sukhoi prepared a proposal for selling us Flankers. I'd love to find out more about it.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2018, 03:10:36 AM »
As much as I like the prospect of RNZAF Flanker's, they are really outside New Zealand’s operational scope
I've read that when the A-4 replacement programme was in full swing in the late 1990s Sukhoi prepared a proposal for selling us Flankers. I'd love to find out more about it.

Sounds very interesting KiwiZac, but unfortunately, I personally don't have anything on the subject.
I would think the RNZAF would struggle $$$-wise with the Flanker's operating costs  :-\

M. A. D

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: A slightly different New Zealand
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2018, 01:32:14 AM »
A snippet:

Quote
the aircraft was also offered to New Zealand as an alternative to its intended second-hand F-16 buy. Sukhoi offered an Su-30 10-year lease, with targeting pods, PGMs and support, for a quoted cost of NZ$124.8 million (US$68.8 million).


Source
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