Author Topic: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII  (Read 8408 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 04:31:33 PM »
Of course for an even more interesting twist, what if Japan still attacked Pearl Harbour despite being allied with the UK and having forces in Europe?  Where would this leave the UK?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 02:10:12 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 05:08:59 PM »
With a two-front war, possibly: European Theatre and American Theatre.

I think the USN would be rather worse off, having to fight the IJN and R(x)N together. On the land, though, Canada would be fairly well fubared, unless the Anglo-Japanese alliance can convince Mexico to join in on their side (encourage them by offering to let them have their lost territories after the war...). That's the only thing I can see that'd prevent the US from overrunning Canada - if actual American territory is being invaded/occupied.

More interestingly, their could be an odd sort of arrangement made, in which the US remains neutral with regards to the UK (since the Empire is not involved with Japanese operations in the Pacific, and a victory for Hitler in Europe also not really in American interests)...
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 08:18:41 PM »
Of course for an even more interesting twist, what if Japan still attacked Perarl Harbour despite being allied with the UK and having forces in Europe?  Where would this leave the UK?

WARNING: Orthogonal Timeline ahead

I think all countries with a common substantial northerly sovereignty requirements and climates such as Canada, Russia, Sweden, Norway, Iceland etc would have formed the Cohesive Arctic Countries Alliance, CACA (pronounced KAH-KAK)  and would pooh poohed membership with all other wimpy southerly alliances.

Hey, Killer Whales, Polar Bears, Elk, Reindeer,  Wolves have had a no-borders policy for 1,000s of years. Santa Claus however would have to pay a transit fee to fly over our airspace.

The UK would not have the RCAF. The Polar Bear would be in the the center of the CACAAF roundel. Just like the Canadian Toonie.

:-)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 08:26:20 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2012, 02:09:53 AM »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2012, 02:13:49 AM »
More interestingly, their could be an odd sort of arrangement made, in which the US remains neutral with regards to the UK (since the Empire is not involved with Japanese operations in the Pacific, and a victory for Hitler in Europe also not really in American interests)...

That's what I thought too.  The UK would be unwilling to tell the Japanese to take their forces and go home.  But at the same time, they would feel a need to support the USA, given their common history, cultures etc.  In many respects this would be a British nightmare.

It could make for some interesting Atlantic confrontations if Japanese ships were operating there with the British.  Maybe they would need to be confined to the Eastern Atlantic. 

Singapore could also be interesting here, since one would assume that neither it not Hong Kong would be attacked by the Japanese.

Hmmm, makes for a complicated, though interesting scenario...
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2012, 03:06:10 AM »

Singapore could also be interesting here, since one would assume that neither it not Hong Kong would be attacked by the Japanese.



As I said in my first post to this thread; the mind set of imperialist Japan would make a few unpleasant, and unthinkable, things quite possible if the war dragged on long enough.

I highly doubt the British held territories in Asia would be safe from Japanese annexation if things went on too long. Lots of natural resources, strategically important geography; lots of temptation for an aspiring empire.

Two island nations, one with a well established empire and the other trying to build one. Both with heavy industrial bases and the need to import raw materials to  keep the gears turning.....

You wanna bet they won't step on each other's toes eventually?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 03:50:04 AM »
Quite probably.  However, maybe as part of their alliance, Britain and Japan establish a trading pact whereby Japan is provided much of the critical supplies they wanted...and in return Britain gets arms ( from factories well outside the range of German intervention) and forces to help fight...
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Offline raafif

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 08:50:46 AM »
I'm keen to keep the US out of WW2 as their industrial strength makes it too easy to win .... I want the war to carry on with some to-and-froing.

1770's -- tea-drinking in the new colony of America plummeted in a fit of nationalism -- the Boston Tea Party & War of Independence were such humiliating defeats for Britain that it never got over its animosity.  Britain had severed all contact with the USA, only deigning to buy US-made parts in the 2nd Great War under severe need.

Japan needs to find a supply of oil and due to America's indifference to their State, the people of Alaska decide to become an independent state of Canada, adopting the PolarBear in a red circle as their emblem -- Inuit lore proclaims the PolarBear as being at the center of the Circle of Life.
This fits neatly with Japan's need for oil & gold reserves, creating a good trade & diplomatic match.

How about having the FAA equiped with Bristol Hercules powered Aichi Val dive bombers for the Battle of Taranto?

This would be followed on by Yokosuka Judy dive bombers, also Hercules powered.

This would see the Fairey Swordfish replaced earlier and the Fairey Barracuda cancelled at the prototype stage in favour of the company license producing the two Japanese designs for the FAA.


good idea, upnorth -- the Herc was the only good British radial.

As a replacement of the Blenheim a slightly larger light-bomber is in development but the Bristol Taurus engines are causing worry so it's decided to replace them with Mitsubishi radials.  By the time this "super-Blenheim" is ready it has become a torpedo-bomber for attacking the German Navy's heavy ships which make dash-runs through the English Channel to disrupt the Allied supply-line -- it is named "Beaufort" and put into limited production, then cancelled in favour of readily available Japanese designs.


Tank-destroyer North African theatre...

Offline apophenia

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 10:44:28 AM »
Interesting ideas there. I went with an FAA 'Kate' for the Taranto attack.

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Offline raafif

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 04:53:52 AM »
As they have many lakes, neutral Switzerland purchased fifty A6M2n "Rufe" floatplanes as part of their air-interception force to counter the many German & Russian "strays" over their territory.  During the war they forced down 157 German, 62 Russian and (late in the war) 20 Allied aircraft that drifted, either intentionally or by accident, over Switzerland.


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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 09:53:20 AM »
Curtiss/Kyushu J7W  Shinden??
XP-55 developments?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2012, 01:47:55 PM »
My take on a British Rufe and Zero (sort of  ;) )

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg15471#msg15471
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2012, 11:41:17 PM »
I was doing a bit more reading up on the history of Japan and their foreign relations from the Meiji Restoration to WWII and what seems to stand out is that Japan pretty much was on the good side of Britain for the bulk of the time.

Japan was an allied power in WWI and remained on decent terms with Britain into the interwar period.

The critical events that occured that allowed alignment of real world Japan with the Axis occured during the 1930s amid financial crisis, growing military influence over political matters in the country and a series of coup and assassination attempts against the Japanese government.

If you could take Prime minister Fumimaro Konoe and his foreign minister, Yosuke Matsuoka out of the picture somehow so they weren't in positions to influence Japan down a road of totalitiarianism, expansionism, nationalism and alliance with Germany and Italy then Japan might have been able to stay allied.

A real key to keeping Japan allied would have been to limit the political influence of the military, which was major.

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