Author Topic: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles  (Read 24899 times)

Offline Frank3k

  • Excession
  • Formerly Frank2056. New upgrade!
    • My new webpage
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2013, 12:20:43 PM »
Some of those are insane- the Bren carrier with the turret and what looks like an M3 with a 2pounder. The "convertible" is hilarious; 0 to 60 in about 10 minutes...

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2013, 12:51:27 PM »


I only have one thing to say -- "Punk Darleks, Exterminate, Exterminate !!" ;D

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2013, 11:32:41 AM »
The biggest probblem with the Stuart is its size. It is incredibly small inside. Normal 21st century people simply do not fit inside. Peoiple that were 5'10" and 150 lb found it small. Strapping modern troopers pushing 6'2" and 220 of muscle simply will not fit inside unless you make significant structural changes.

If you want to "modernize" it, about the best you can do is what the Brazilians did in the early 70s:


If you are willing to virtually make a complete new vehicle you can get as far as this:


Either of those vehicles _could_ have image intensification systems and maybe simplistic laser rangefinders and then you could add ERA or ceramic slab armour, but the suspensions would be brutally overloaded.

If you go with a new turret with larger turret ring, then the gun can be changed to somehithg more suitable to the mission and for anti smuggling patrols the 30mm Rarden from the CVRT series of tanks is a good choice. Lots of ammo choices and a feed system that can swap between two types simultaneously loaded in the system. Also optimised for AFV use so it's not chewing through ammo like an aircraft autocannon ( ;) ).

Change the engine out for a modern diesel and add an IR suppression exhaust system and a turret bustle for radios & electronics.

Just a few thoughts,

Paul

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2013, 12:32:02 PM »
Is there any company that manufactures 1/35 conversion kit that turns a Stuart light tank into a M8 HMC (i.e. a turret-only kit)?

It would be of great use to what is quite possibly gonna be the only plastic/resin model project I will ever do in my life other than Warhammer 40k......

(A turret-only kit because I don't want to have a Stuart hull that I don't know what to do with...... unless it's cheaper to go for a full-vehicle kit......)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 12:40:00 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Feldmarschall Zod

  • Kitbasher extroinadaire
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I hope that's not the sound he makes...
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2013, 05:17:14 AM »
Is there any company that manufactures 1/35 conversion kit that turns a Stuart light tank into a M8 HMC (i.e. a turret-only kit)?

It would be of great use to what is quite possibly gonna be the only plastic/resin model project I will ever do in my life other than Warhammer 40k......

(A turret-only kit because I don't want to have a Stuart hull that I don't know what to do with...... unless it's cheaper to go for a full-vehicle kit......)


http://www.newtmd.com/Search/M8
Every time you eat celery,an angel vomits in a gas station bathroom. Tanks rule. I know the load is late,but the voices tell me to pull over and clean the guns.

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2013, 07:56:11 AM »
Wow, thanks.

Now I can comtemplate on doing that Tamiya M3 Medium tank kit, whose manual I have lost, with it and a 76mm gun barrel......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2013, 10:36:33 AM »
(A turret-only kit because I don't want to have a Stuart hull that I don't know what to do with...... unless it's cheaper to go for a full-vehicle kit......)
A stock Tamiya M8 kit is probably no more than $20-25 new, but they are currently not in production so you'll probably have to get one second hand in which case you can probably get it for $10-15. Heck, for $20 plus postage, you can have one of mine, I have two.

The TMD AM kit is really nice, but may be more than you want for your whif model.

Paul

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2013, 10:55:48 AM »
Now I can comtemplate on doing that Tamiya M3 Medium tank kit, whose manual I have lost, with it and a 76mm gun barrel......
If you want the instructions for the M3 Lee or Grant, let me know and I'll PDF them to you. PM me with your email address & I'll get it off to you before Christmas.

The M8 turret had the same turret ring as the Lee/ Grant turret, so is should be a straight swap. However, the 76mm tank gun needed a larger turret ring to work due to the greater recoil stroke. You're probably going to have to move the trunions forward 8-10" and add a counterweight to the back of the turret to make it all balance out. You could also add a muzzle brake from teh later 76mm guns to reduce recoil on the hull.

75mm sponson gun would be a good infantry support weapon while the 76 in the M8 turret would be very effective against the light armour present in most Central and South American armies through the 60s.

Paul

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2013, 11:06:44 AM »
75mm sponson gun would be a good infantry support weapon while the 76 in the M8 turret would be very effective against the light armour present in most Central and South American armies through the 60s.

I'm actually planning to put that 76mm gun in the sponson mount and keep the turreted 75mm howitzer.  Maybe some weld-on overhead armour plates for the M8 turret.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2014, 11:01:28 PM »
I'm actually planning to put that 76mm gun in the sponson mount and keep the turreted 75mm howitzer.

I'm pretty sure the recoil length for the 76mm wouldn't actually permit it to fit in the sponson. If that mattters to you...
Quote
  Maybe some weld-on overhead armour plates for the M8 turret.

In which case you may want to look at aftermarket turrets for the LVT A5
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/amphibious/lvt/lvt-a5-01.png

Paul

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2014, 08:40:51 AM »

I'm pretty sure the recoil length for the 76mm wouldn't actually permit it to fit in the sponson. If that mattters to you... 

Dang!

...... guess I'll need to think up a scenario where Pak 97/38 could get captured at the Atlantic Wall......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: 1/35 M8 HMC Conversion Kit?
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2014, 10:40:25 AM »
I'm actually planning to put that 76mm gun in the sponson mount and keep the turreted 75mm howitzer.
I'm pretty sure the recoil length for the 76mm wouldn't actually permit it to fit in the sponson. If that mattters to you...

Just extend the sponson forward three or more feet or alternatively, say they've added more/stronger recoil recuperators to shorten the recoil travel.   The biggest problem would be the decreased traverse because of the bigger breech not able to swing inside.  It would be effectively zero to Port and a few degrees less to Starboard.


Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2014, 10:05:41 AM »
Here's an interesting one. It's an M8 HMC, but with an M24 Chaffee mantlet.



Cheers,

Logan

Offline Queeg

  • Master armour builder
  • Lost but now foun .... nope - still lost!
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2014, 10:23:26 AM »
I've always like this as a Stuart upgrade, thinking about using this idea for my 20mm '46 Americans. Sorry can't credit the modeller, it's just outa my web pic stash .....

Brent



Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2014, 10:42:28 AM »
Pretty straightforward, actually. Brazilian X1A with 60mm HVMS instead of the 90mm Cockerill.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2014, 10:44:47 AM »
By the way, I found the source pretty readily. Graywolfgang ono Armorama about 5 years ago.



http://armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=135186

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Queeg

  • Master armour builder
  • Lost but now foun .... nope - still lost!
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2014, 12:47:33 PM »
That's the Verlindin HVMS turret though right? It looks better than the X1A turret at any rate. 

PS that was a quick search btw. I knew I had the pic somewhere but searching the drive for it was a mare lol

Brent

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2014, 09:58:14 PM »
It looked like it from the builder's comments. He says he built it in '88 using the VL turret.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Queeg

  • Master armour builder
  • Lost but now foun .... nope - still lost!
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2014, 04:41:07 AM »
Blackdog do a HVMS in 1/72nd so I might have to chase one up ...........

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2014, 04:52:43 AM »
screen-grabs from a 45-minute youtube video on Croatian 1991 improvised armour ....

Note the improvised tank named "Sherman" - other photos weren't clear & I thought it must be built on a Russian catapillar-tractor but it appears to be based on a M4-18t "High-Speed" tractor chassis.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 04:54:44 AM by raafif »

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2018, 05:41:47 AM »
I've always like this as a Stuart upgrade, thinking about using this idea for my 20mm '46 Americans. Sorry can't credit the modeller, it's just outa my web pic stash .....

The 60mm HVMS turret has the same turret ring diametre as that of the AML-90 turret.  I have an awful sense of scale, but that makes the idea of a turret swap for the X1A seem somewhat hopeful to me.

Does anyone know the length of a complete 60mm APFSDS round?  Just to help me generating a mental picture on the possible resulting ammo capacity......

Pretty straightforward, actually. Brazilian X1A with 60mm HVMS instead of the 90mm Cockerill.
That's the Verlindin HVMS turret though right? It looks better than the X1A turret at any rate.

I don't have the number on the weight of the turret used by the X1A, but the heavier gun and seemingly more-sophisticated fire control leads me to believe that the complete HVMS turret might be heavier than the X1A turret.  I love the idea but wonder if the added weight is still within the margin that the tank's suspension can handle......
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 05:45:45 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2018, 05:56:06 AM »
Does anyone know the length of a complete 60mm APFSDS round?  Just to help me generating a mental picture on the possible resulting ammo capacity......

I believe this is the same ammunition (the Italians were originally involved with the Israeli 60mm APFSDS round as well):



So complete cartridge is 620mm.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 05:58:37 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: Stuart tank
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2018, 06:28:07 AM »
So complete cartridge is 620mm.

Thanks.  That as a complete round seems both shorter and lighter than the 90mm DEFA F1 gun's HEAT round (at least as far as the numbers I got off Google are concerned: 690mm and 8.4kg).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 06:31:20 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Zaskar24

  • Newly Joined - Welcome me!
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2019, 07:48:30 AM »
Here is another interesting one-off prototype that I recently found. The story is that it was looked at for a faster tank destroyer until the M18 came about at which point it was dropped. Interesting use for the M8 HMC though.


Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2019, 11:19:03 PM »
Here is another interesting one-off prototype that I recently found. The story is that it was looked at for a faster tank destroyer until the M18 came about at which point it was dropped. Interesting use for the M8 HMC though.
Apparently they found it almost impossible to work the piece in the confines of the small M8 turret. Although the caliber is the same, the 75mm M3 had a much greater recoil length (and therefore the breech and recoil guard were much larger) and longer ammo than the 75mm Pack How in the M8 and it greatly reduced the ability of the crew to do anything in the turret. Even if the M18 had not come along, the existence of the M10 platform and lack of AT performance of the 75mm M3 would have almost certainly doomed this idea to non-production.

Much the same problem existed when they tried to shoehorn the shortened 105mm M3 howitzer into an open casemate mounting on the M5 chassis, much like a baby M7 Priest. No room at all inside for any ammo, it was all in lockers located on the engine deck to the rear. They built a couple and dropped them as unworkable.

Paul