Author Topic: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles  (Read 25292 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« on: March 21, 2012, 05:00:08 PM »
Wikipedia - M3 and M5 Stuart Light Tanks

Click to view larger image

(Image source: Wikipedia

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I was pursuing an idea to mount the M8 Scott 75mm Howitzer Motor Carriage turret on the M113 Australian Army Fire Support Vehicle.  Both kits are quite old and have a lot of potential for modification.  I discovered that the M8 HMC turret will fit on the M113 FSV hull but it requires some major surgery to the ring in order to make it fit.  This was not the case for the Saladin turret from the M113 FSV fitting on the M5 (M8 HMC) Stuart hull.  It drops right in and there is no interference with the rear engine deck and the turret.  The resulting mock up was then imaged to share the idea here. 









So if anyone is in search of a quick and very easy modeling project involving to rather ancient Tamiya kits this might be just what you are looking for. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 05:02:23 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 05:15:53 PM »
How about a tank destroyer type with fixed main gun...i.e. STUG type
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 06:36:32 PM »
Well, the Germans did it with the Hetzer (light tank into TD) so that's plausible.  The rear-mount engine has to be a bonus for that reason alone.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 08:51:24 PM »
My gosh, that Saladin turret on a Stuart hull is brilliant!  Well done, I can't believe it wasn't done before.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2012, 01:23:32 AM »
How about a tank destroyer type with fixed main gun...i.e. STUG type
 
There was an anti-tank gun motor carriage based on the Stuart hull that had the engine mounted forward and the ordnance mounted at the rear of the hull.  Actually several variations on that theme but nothing that looked like a StuG Hetzer. 

I wonder what it will take to add HVSS to the Stuart hull to give it a different look.  The wider tracks would be a good thing for reducing ground pressure even further. 

Another possibility might be to try and fit the M24 Chaffee turret to the M5 Stuart hull. 

My gosh, that Saladin turret on a Stuart hull is brilliant!  Well done, I can't believe it wasn't done before.

Yes, it was an accident of sorts as it just fell into place without issue.  I had been focusing on the M8 HMC turret and trying to make that fit on the M113 FSV when I realized I had another whif staring me in the face with that Saladin turret on the Stuart hull. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 03:30:52 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2012, 02:47:10 AM »
How about a tank destroyer type with fixed main gun...i.e. STUG type


They built a STUG type self-propelled gun on the M3 chassis, the T18 GMC:


The open-topped T82 105mm was also built:


... and pre-war the 75mm T3 on the M1A1 Combat Car chassis:



Also (pedant mode on) the STUG (Sturmgeschütze) were self-propelled assault guns, not purpose designed
'tank-destroyers' (Jagdpanzer), some models were used in that role when necessary but that was not the intent.
In the STUGs the gun was mounted toward the center of the vehicle, not forward like the Jagdpanzer and Hetzer,
(Jagdpanther is its own, unique animal).
Note that on the T18 the gun is roughly in the center fore-and-aft, and offset to the right. The small size
(if you ever get a chance to climb around one, do it, they are incredibly tight inside) of the Stuart and the
arrangement of the drive-train (mid rear-engine/front-drive) and short hull gives a designer few options,
a cutaway that shows the problems:


In the non-turreted 3" TD designs built, T56 and T57, the engine was moved forward and the gun mounted
to the rear.

T56

T57

While based on the 38(t), the Hetzer had a redesigned and enlarged hull, a Stuart based 'Hetzer-ish'
jagdpanzer, would also need an enlarged hull, in particular it would need to be longer. Also a pancake
engine wouldn't go amiss.

My own long stalled M3A3 with Vulcan:

It has been painted, but I just realized I have no newer pics of it, I'll get a couple and post later.

In closing, the M3A3 is by far the best looking of the family, the raised rear deck of the M5 just looks kluged.  ;)
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2012, 03:30:08 AM »
My own long stalled M3A3 with Vulcan:

It has been painted, but I just realized I have no newer pics of it, I'll get a couple and post later.

Nice work Jon, looking forward to seeing more images of this so hurry up and take some more pictures :)

In closing, the M3A3 is by far the best looking of the family, the raised rear deck of the M5 just looks kluged.  ;)

I would agree with you there, it does look a bit odd. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2012, 06:09:33 AM »
There were some exceptions to the rule regarding the placement of main guns within the Jagdpanzer families, of course.  Not all were forward mounted.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Feldmarschall Zod

  • Kitbasher extroinadaire
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I hope that's not the sound he makes...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2012, 07:24:19 AM »
As far as the Sherman HVSS on the M3/M5 hull goes......... Not sure how well it would fit. I have George Bradford's scale plans book of American armor of W.W.2. I will check those plans.
Every time you eat celery,an angel vomits in a gas station bathroom. Tanks rule. I know the load is late,but the voices tell me to pull over and clean the guns.

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2012, 09:11:46 AM »
There were some exceptions to the rule regarding the placement of main guns within the Jagdpanzer families, of course.  Not all were forward mounted.

Regards,

John

If you mean the Marder series, Hornisse/Nashorn, Elefant, Jagdpanther and similar, they were classified
as Panzerjager rather than Jagdpanzer. Tank-Hunter rather than Hunting-Tank.
The Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer and Jagpanzer VI Jagdtiger were the only vehicles so named,
and the Jadgtiger was the only one of the three with a center mounted weapon.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 09:20:04 AM »
I would have thought the Jagdpanther was quite obviously a Jagdpanzer as it's weapon was forward mounted.

Either way, both the Panzerjagers and Jagdpanzers had a broadly similar role, that is anti-tank.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2012, 03:30:01 PM »


Here ya go Jeff, still a long ways to go.

John, I didn't create the naming difference that was the original owners.  ;)



“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2012, 07:58:22 PM »
The Germans do/did like to think up rather convoluted names.  I particularly like the title "Herr Professor Doktor" which is rather grandiose.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Rafael

  • El capitán del Cartón
  • Head of the Venezuelan Brigade
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2012, 08:38:51 PM »
Lovely. I would like to see this in wheeled configuration :-*

Rafa
I don't take life seriously. I'm not getting out of it alive anyways.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2012, 12:29:28 AM »
Here ya go Jeff, still a long ways to go.


Thanks Jon, that little M3A3 hull looks great.  So much better than the Tamiya M5/M8 hull that I am using at the moment.  The Tamiya M8 HMC  kit hull does not feature the overhead hatches which certainly make a difference in overall appearance. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2012, 02:13:45 AM »


Here ya go Jeff, still a long ways to go.

John, I didn't create the naming difference that was the original owners.  ;)


I don't know why but that has a crazed US Civil War or WWI look to it...maybe even something Turtledove...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2012, 07:01:36 AM »
A question to anyone that happens to have the M3 Grant/Lee tank and the M3/M5 Stuart or M8 Scott HMC in their stash. 

Will the Grant or Lee turret fit on the Stuart hull? 

I do not have any Grant or Lee tank kits in my stash, thus the reason for asking the question. 

Thanks in advance.
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Feldmarschall Zod

  • Kitbasher extroinadaire
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I hope that's not the sound he makes...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2012, 07:12:55 AM »
A question to anyone that happens to have the M3 Grant/Lee tank and the M3/M5 Stuart or M8 Scott HMC in their stash. 

Will the Grant or Lee turret fit on the Stuart hull? 

I do not have any Grant or Lee tank kits in my stash, thus the reason for asking the question. 

Thanks in advance.
I have both,but not access to them right now.I will let you know asap.
Every time you eat celery,an angel vomits in a gas station bathroom. Tanks rule. I know the load is late,but the voices tell me to pull over and clean the guns.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2012, 08:19:54 AM »
A question to anyone that happens to have the M3 Grant/Lee tank and the M3/M5 Stuart or M8 Scott HMC in their stash. 

Will the Grant or Lee turret fit on the Stuart hull? 

I do not have any Grant or Lee tank kits in my stash, thus the reason for asking the question. 

Thanks in advance.
I have both,but not access to them right now.I will let you know asap.

Thanks Chad.  Curious to see if the Lee or Grant turret can fit the Stuart hull without too much alteration.  It would make for a slightly different looking Stuart. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 02:24:28 PM »
Turret ring diameters:
M3/M5 Light: 46.75"
M3 Medium: 54.5"

According to the weight figures the Grant was about a 1,000 pounds heavier than the M3 'Lee',
which is not surprising as the Grant turret was larger.

Either turret would be too heavy for the Stuart chassis.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Stuart Light Tank (M3 and M5) Family of Vehicles
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2012, 11:45:28 PM »
Turret ring diameters:
M3/M5 Light: 46.75"
M3 Medium: 54.5"

According to the weight figures the Grant was about a 1,000 pounds heavier than the M3 'Lee',
which is not surprising as the Grant turret was larger.

Either turret would be too heavy for the Stuart chassis.


Thanks Jon, that information just makes it all that more appealing to build :)

Damn the reality! 

Guess I will be shopping for a Grant or Lee though I prefer the turret used on the Grant since it does not have that silly little machine gun cupola for the vehicle commander. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Feldmarschall Zod

  • Kitbasher extroinadaire
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I hope that's not the sound he makes...
Stuart light tanks armed with a 47mm?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 07:47:29 AM »
Would an M3 or M5 Stuart light tank armed with a 47 mm cannon be plausible? I know the M3A3 and M5A1 turrets were a bit longer than the earlier turrets,but then where would the wireless set be put at?
Every time you eat celery,an angel vomits in a gas station bathroom. Tanks rule. I know the load is late,but the voices tell me to pull over and clean the guns.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Stuart light tanks armed with a 47mm?
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 09:14:36 AM »
It honestly depends on the 47mm gun.  If it's something like the 47 mm SA 35, then probably not.  At the very least, it would be a tight fit.  If it was something more akin to the 47 mm Cannone da 47/32 M35, then there probably wouldn't be much problem with it.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Feldmarschall Zod

  • Kitbasher extroinadaire
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I hope that's not the sound he makes...
Re: Stuart light tanks armed with a 47mm?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 06:00:42 AM »
It honestly depends on the 47mm gun.  If it's something like the 47 mm SA 35, then probably not.  At the very least, it would be a tight fit.  If it was something more akin to the 47 mm Cannone da 47/32 M35, then there probably wouldn't be much problem with it.

Cheers,

Logan

Thanks Logan.
An E Book I had read had the M3 light tank armed with a 47 mm.
Every time you eat celery,an angel vomits in a gas station bathroom. Tanks rule. I know the load is late,but the voices tell me to pull over and clean the guns.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: Stuart light tanks armed with a 47mm?
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2013, 06:22:49 AM »
It honestly depends on the 47mm gun.  If it's something like the 47 mm SA 35, then probably not.  At the very least, it would be a tight fit.  If it was something more akin to the 47 mm Cannone da 47/32 M35, then there probably wouldn't be much problem with it.

Cheers,

Logan

Thanks Logan.
An E Book I had read had the M3 light tank armed with a 47 mm.

Could be typo of 37mm  ???
Wonder how well they would have done with 20mm M39 or 25mm Bushmaster ?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 06:29:35 AM by finsrin »