Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration

[Gingie]

Different:  A Ford Jeep customized with a B-17‘s windshield and cockpit roof

Am I the only one surprised how tiny the Fortress cockpit is? At first I thought that was a scale-o-rama 48th B17 on to a 35th Jeep!

[The Big Gimper]

At war’s end, the need for test bed aircraft that could carry new turbojet and turboprop engines aloft spawned a pair of B-17G conversions by Boeing, given the model designation 299Z. These B-17s kept all four R-1820 radial engines, and incorporated a series of streamlined engine mounts in the nose to accommodate turboprops, advanced versions of the R-3350 piston engine, and even an underslung turbojet.

Curtiss-Wright made one unusual, yet predictable, change to its test bed B-17, replacing its regular Hamilton-Standard propellers with Curtiss Electric props and hubs. The Curtiss-Wright aircraft tested the Wright Typhoon XT35 turbine engine originally envisioned for a Boeing bomber that became the B-52 with different engines. This test bed also flew with an underslung Curtiss-Wright J65 turbojet.

The Curtiss Wright B-17G underwent further alterations with a new underslung centerline mount for a J65 turbojet. Propellers on this airplane were Curtiss-Wright instead of Hamilton-Standard.

[finsrin]

Could kitbash B-58 engine in same place to become a post war racing B-17.

[raafif]

Could kitbash B-58 engine in same place to become a post war racing B-17.

 

[Daryl J.]

Early platform for VLF communications like the current E-6B Mercury.

Wingtip pods, antenna faring replacing the dorsal turret,  etc.

[finsrin]

Early platform for VLF communications like the current E-6B Mercury.

Wingtip pods, antenna faring replacing the dorsal turret,  etc.

Approved 

[GTX_Admin]

If talking Navy birds, what about a developed PB-1 with MAD boom and torpedoes?

[raafif]

If talking Navy birds, what about a developed PB-1 with MAD boom and torpedoes?

Like this ?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

A towed MAD device might be more practical for the PB-1/B-17 instead of that long extended boom that would seriously get in the way during landing and departures.  Some PBY Catalinas serving in the ASW role were equipped with a towed MAD device that was trailed when searching for submarines and when not needed was winched back aboard the aircraft.  If I remember correctly, it was deployed and hauled in via the lower gunners position in the hull. 





***Edit for grammar--jjf

[Old Wombat]

If talking Navy birds, what about a developed PB-1 with MAD boom and torpedoes?

Like this ?

I'd go with a Tracker style retractable MAD boom & retractable radar where the ball turret used to be with torpedoes in the bomb bay, & maybe an early FLIR turret where the chin turret used to be.

[finsrin]

If talking Navy birds, what about a developed PB-1 with MAD boom and torpedoes?

Like this ?

I'd go with a Tracker style retractable MAD boom & retractable radar where the ball turret used to be with torpedoes in the bomb bay, & maybe an early FLIR turret where the chin turret used to be.

Yes, you are on a roll....

[GTX_Admin]

A towed MAD device might be more practical for the PB-1/B-17 instead of that long extended boom that would seriously get in the way during landing and departures.  Some PBY Catalinas serving in the ASW role were equipped with a towed MAD device that was trailed when searching for submarines and when not needed was winched back aboard the aircraft.  If I remember correctly, it was deployed and hauled in via the lower gunners position in the hull. 

Yes, this was the Catalina system:

[GTX_Admin]

I'd go with a Tracker style retractable MAD boom & retractable radar where the ball turret used to be with torpedoes in the bomb bay, & maybe an early FLIR turret where the chin turret used to be.

I was thinking of something closer to the P-3 MAD boom:



Radar as you suggested:



Possibly early IR searchlight/scanner instead of B-17G nose turret, possibly akin to this:



And possibly sonobuoys in bomb bay and torpedoes on under wing mounts.

[Old Wombat]

I'd go with a Tracker style retractable MAD boom & retractable radar where the ball turret used to be with torpedoes in the bomb bay, & maybe an early FLIR turret where the chin turret used to be.

I was thinking of something closer to the P-3 MAD boom:

I was thinking that, as the B-17 is a tail-dragger (which closely equates to the stance of the Tracker), that a retractable boom would be less likely than any form of fixed boom to get broken.

I'd go with a Tracker style retractable MAD boom & retractable radar where the ball turret used to be with torpedoes in the bomb bay, & maybe an early FLIR turret where the chin turret used to be.

Radar as you suggested:

Exactly!

I'd go with a Tracker style retractable MAD boom & retractable radar where the ball turret used to be with torpedoes in the bomb bay, & maybe an early FLIR turret where the chin turret used to be.

Possibly early IR searchlight/scanner instead of B-17G nose turret, possibly akin to this:



And possibly sonobuoys in bomb bay and torpedoes on under wing mounts.

Works for me!

[GTX_Admin]

I was thinking that, as the B-17 is a tail-dragger (which closely equates to the stance of the Tracker), that a retractable boom would be less likely than any form of fixed boom to get broken.

If you look how the B-17 sits when parked and then imagine the main MAD boom being aligned with the upper part of the fuselage line and then extending no more than 2 - 3m back, I think we would be fine

[GTX_Admin]

Another idea:  What if during the war the Allies decided that they needed greater range and thus a bunch of B-17s (and B-24s) were converted/produced as dedicated Aerial Refuelling tankers to accompany (partway) the bomber fleets?

[finsrin]

Another idea:  What if during the war the Allies decided that they needed greater range and thus a bunch of B-17s (and B-24s) were converted/produced as dedicated Aerial Refuelling tankers to accompany (partway) the bomber fleets?

 

[The Big Gimper]

I have not seen this photo before.



It is from the Douglas VB-9/VB-10/VB-11/VB-12 Roc family.

https://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/vb.html


Found this:

The USAAF experimented with other VB weapons that never got out of the test phase:

The "VB-5" was a VB-3 RAZON, with a simple EO light contrast seeker.

The "VB-6" AKA "Felix" was a 450-kilogram (1,000-pound) bomb with an infrared heat-seeker for homing in on blast furnaces and the like. It had a single tail, and it is unclear if it had single- or double-axis guidance.

The "VB-7" and "VB-8" were both radio-controlled, with a bombardier targeting the weapons through a TV seeker. Details are unclear, and they may not have even been tested.

The "VB-9" through "VB-12" departed from the earlier weapons, since they did not resemble modified bombs. They were known as the "ROC" weapons. This name was derived from the great bird of THE ARABIAN NIGHTS, but also seems to have reflected a control algorithm in which the bomb "rocked" its wings to stay on course.

The VB-9 was another 450-kilogram (1,000-pound) glide bomb with relatively long cruciform wings and tail, and had an active radar seeker that turned out to work poorly against ground clutter. The later VB-10, VB-11, and VB-12 were of similar size, but used a circular airfoil and were fitted with TV, infrared heat-seeking, and radio command guidance systems respectively.

Source: https://www.airvectors.net/avsmw2.html

[GTX_Admin]

Does anyone sell kits of those?

[The Big Gimper]

I don't think so.

The only one from that era that I have seen is the ASM-N-2 Bat.

Lone Star Models had it in 1/48: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/lone-star-models-lsm-48656-asm-n-2-bat-glide-bomb--1322382
A Model has it in 1/72: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/amodel-na72012-asm-2n-bat--1398640