Author Topic: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 126681 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« on: March 05, 2012, 02:34:21 AM »
Hi folks,

A thread dedicated to your P-51 Mustang and Derivates (that includes the A-36 and F-82) Ideas and Inspiration.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 02:37:47 AM »
To begin with, the proposed Sea Mustang:



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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 02:40:32 AM »
Radial Engined derivatives:






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Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 02:45:47 AM »
There's these

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 06:03:01 AM »
This is such an awesome photo.



A link GTX provided on the Falcon thread.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 09:06:24 AM »
I've got this pic

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 09:38:22 AM »
High-altitude interceptor version of a Mustang (basically a single-fuselage F-82):



Defiant-style turret:


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Moritz

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 09:58:26 AM »
How about a "Twin Mustang" much like the "Twin P-40" that Curtiss mocked up - one fuselage with a solid nose (weapons fit optional) and two engine nacelles with the wing of the P-82?  I suspect the fuselage would need lengthening to P-82 length and that could get interesting if you're starting from a razorback fuselage.  Something along these lines is on my "to do" list.

Another thought, since the T-28 looks to have derived from that radial-engined Mustang concept, how about splicing bits of it and a P-51H together to do a tri-gear Mustang?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »
High-altitude interceptor version of a Mustang (basically a single-fuselage F-82)

I wish it were that simple to make one in plastic.  I have a 1/48th scale ModelCraft F-82 kit that I have been tearing up for quite some time now and getting very frustrated with it.  Add to that the interest in setting it up with a nose wheel and all of the ingredients are present for one of those "FAIL" demotivational posters :(
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Offline Jeremak

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 12:34:36 AM »
That radial version is very good looking. And USN blue, or FAA colours would make it even more pretty...

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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 01:21:01 AM »
Not-so-subtle "variant":



Custom V-16 engine, 5-bladed prop, wingtip rocket pods/fuel tanks, experimental (actual) camouflage.

I made this from a "single" P-82 twin-Mustang fuselage (larger and longer than a P-51), a "snap-tite" Mustang wing (about 1/64 scale, thus again slightly larger), F-89 "Scorpion" wingtip pods (what GENIUS decided to mix fiery rockets and fuel????), and Spitfire 22 prop (at the time I didn't want to try to "reverse" the props, so my fictional V-16 ENGINE defies American custom and rotates oppositely).
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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2012, 10:35:54 AM »
What would a Mustang look like with a Seafire 47 wing and Griffon?
Would it fly??
If someone could do a profile, I'd love it!
Gofy

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2012, 11:37:48 PM »
While it's been done already in plastic by a couple people, I'd love to see an Allison-engined -D model.   Why the -D rather than a bubble topped P-51A?   Better proportions IMHO. 
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 04:14:06 AM »
How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38.  The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger.  What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?
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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 04:33:09 AM »
How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38.  The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger.  What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?

Or post war when production rights for the RR Merlin was withdrawn.  An example of which is the F-82 Twin Mustang which in prototype and early production models did use a Merlin engines but later versions were powered by the Allison engines.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 05:33:01 AM »
What was the fee Rolls Royce charged per Merlin?   IIRC, it was tremendously expensive.     

And for the profile of the Allison D-model Mustang, Ron Cline's 1/48 ICM-based  ''Joker" is the machine.   :)
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 11:57:41 AM »
Something I came across a while ago - a single F-82B was converted into a photo-recon RF-82B in the late '40s:

In flight trials:




Pod in construction:



With an without pics:




Regards,

Greg
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 02:07:29 PM »
That photopod is almost Steampunk.
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 05:32:09 AM »


P-51 "Mustang" fighter planes being prepared for test flight near the North American Aviation plant in Inglewood, California.
Original Kodachrome transparency by Alfred Palmer for the Office of War Information from 1942.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 03:30:33 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 11:00:59 AM »
How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38.  The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger.  What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?


I had a bash ... but she's not much of a looker! Might it be simpler to adopt a Thunderbolt-style turbo system to the P-51?

BTW: as their starting point, these images used bits and pieces from various GaŽtan Marie profiles -- http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2012, 12:35:35 PM »
If you're going the P-38 route, you want to remove the oil coolers from under the engine sinc the P-51 has the oil cooler along side the radiator.  You'll need a bit deeper cowl to add the intercoolers to the induction system, but not that much.  I'd go with a side-mounted turbocharger (much like some Japanese attempts) rather than one on the bottom of the fuselage since that would require re-doing the engine and oil cooling systems (that just runs up development costs); though if you did take that approach of re-doing the cooling system, the new cooling system would likely best use wing root leading edge radiators to keep the drag increase down.  I'd be in favor of anything that retains the P-51's design for producibility (complete fuselages and wings can be built up and fully checked out separately before mating and only the control interfaces then need checking) which is why I favor the side-mounted turbocharger or turbochargers.

Frankly, a redesigned Allison with a two-stage supercharger similar to the Merlin's would be a simpler solution and allows some interesting alternatives.

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 10:48:49 PM »
A bit like this maybe

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 11:20:01 PM »
Belated thanks to all for this interesting topic.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 11:25:06 PM »
Just a thought, how about a Mustang two-seat intermediate trainer with a Ranger, or Menasco, IV-12 engine replacing the Merlin?  The canopy and cockpit arrangement would be the same as some of the field-mod two-seat conversions but totally different forward of the firewall and lacking the radiator and scoop.  This could also be the lead-in design for a post-war touring aircraft similar to the Navion.

Along the same lines, how about a British-modified conversion trainer with a Dagger replacing the Merlin and elimination of the cooling scoop and radiator installation.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 04:22:47 AM by elmayerle »

Offline apophenia

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 06:46:29 AM »
Frankly, a redesigned Allison with a two-stage supercharger similar to the Merlin's would be a simpler solution and allows some interesting alternatives.


IIRC, Allison proposed just that to the Air Corps in the late '30s but was declined.

Here's a go at that 2-seat Mustang with a Ranger V-770. Evan: do you have any details on that Menasco IV-12? This time my starting point was GaŽtan Marie's 'Mustang Template'  -- http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm
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