Author Topic: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)  (Read 2274 times)

Offline The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« on: February 20, 2019, 07:30:31 PM »
Lockheed just rebranded the F-16V Block 70 for India as the F-21. Not to be confused with the U.S. Navy’s small IAI Kfir fleet also designated F-21. The ‘21’ is becoming popular, ie B-21. I also worry the USAF will next designate T-X as T-21, instead of sequentially correct T-54.



The Aviationist @TheAviationist

Lockheed Martin Offers India Enhanced F-16 Block 70 Multirole Combat Aircraft Dubbed "F-21" https://wp.me/p2TYIs-gUz
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2019, 08:37:40 PM »
Would that be anything like;

M1 bayonet (as fitted to the M1 Garand)
M1 carbine
M1 chemical mine
M1 Combat Car (an early tank)
M1 Armored Car
M1 Garand
M1 helmet
M1 mortar
M1 rocket launcher (a bazooka variant)
M1 Thompson submachine gun
Mk 1 Underwater Defense Gun (an underwater pistol)
M1 Thompson carbine
57 mm Gun M1 (US designation for the British Ordnance QF 6-pounder)
90mm M1 Gun (one of a family of dual purpose guns)
120 mm M1 gun (an anti-aircraft gun)
240 mm howitzer M1
Benelli M1 semi-automatic shotgun
M1 flamethrower (WWII-era flamethrower)
8-in Howitzer M1 also known as the M115 Howitzer)
M1 Abrams

in any way shape or form? ???


Sometimes it amazes me that the US Army's logistics chain wasn't totally FUBAR! :-\
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2019, 03:45:27 PM »


Might have to have a go at the Lockheed folks next week since I will be with them.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Online jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2019, 09:06:12 AM »
Yawn, it doesn't mean anything unless officially granted by the DoD.

"21" is no doubt popular because of its 21st Century connotations,
so if you're going to market a 20th century airframe design, F-16,
equipped with 21st century tech, voila, F-21.
 ;D

Ditto B-21, the first 21st Century bomber. Personally speaking, I
think they just forgot the period: B-2.1.
 ;D
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2019, 10:52:34 AM »
Ditto B-21, the first 21st Century bomber. Personally speaking, I
think they just forgot the period: B-2.1.
My contention, too.  It certainly bears a resemblance to certain iterations of the original B-2 design.

Online jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2019, 12:37:51 AM »
Would that be anything like;

M1 bayonet (as fitted to the M1 Garand)
M1 carbine
M1 chemical mine
M1 Combat Car (an early tank)
M1 Armored Car
M1 Garand
M1 helmet
M1 mortar
M1 rocket launcher (a bazooka variant)
M1 Thompson submachine gun
Mk 1 Underwater Defense Gun (an underwater pistol)
M1 Thompson carbine
57 mm Gun M1 (US designation for the British Ordnance QF 6-pounder)
90mm M1 Gun (one of a family of dual purpose guns)
120 mm M1 gun (an anti-aircraft gun)
240 mm howitzer M1
Benelli M1 semi-automatic shotgun
M1 flamethrower (WWII-era flamethrower)
8-in Howitzer M1 also known as the M115 Howitzer)
M1 Abrams

in any way shape or form? ???


Sometimes it amazes me that the US Army's logistics chain wasn't totally FUBAR! :-\

Why would it be fubar?
The Ordnance Department designation system makes it clear what each
item is, and it does not start with the M_ number, e.g. the M1 Garand:
Rifle, Caliber .30, M1.

The same goes for your other examples, also the Standard Nomenclature
List alpha-numeric system was used in the Supply Catalogs for logistical
purposes, with equipment types broken out into groups and each assigned
a number that started with the group letter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Army_weapons_by_supply_catalog_designation
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Alvis 3.1

  • Self acknowledged "Bad Influence"…but probably less attractive than Pink
  • The high priest of whiffing
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 03:03:57 AM »
A customer at the hobby shop was confused by an after market aluminum barrel for a Sherman tank:
"So this is for an Abrams tank, right?"
"No, it's for a Sherman, says so on the box."
"But it says "75mm M-1". So it's for an Abrams."
"No, that's the model designation of that particular 75mm gun, it's the first model."
"So the Abrams used a 75 mm gun?"
"No. It's for a WW 2 Sherman. Says right *there*" Points to box.
"They didn't use Abrams in WW2."
*Sigh*
"Let's start again. What are you building?"
"An Abrams tank."
"Ok, then this isn't the right gun for it."
"But it says..."
"NO. M-1 means model number..."
"I don't know what the number of my model kit is..."
"NO. The REAL thing model number. M-1 can be a rifle, or a canteen, or a vehicle."
"Like an Abrams, so this is the gun for it then?"
*Al Crosses "M-1" off the box with a sharpie*
"Not now. Use the gun in the kit, it's more accurate anyhow."

Another variation of the Monty Python "Book Shop" sketch.

Offline KiwiZac

  • Once crowned Mango King by Brian da Basher!
  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 07:25:19 AM »
I saw tweets and posts about the F-21 and was very confused.

Maybe the winner of Future Vertical Lift will be the H-21?  ;D
With warm regards from Whanganui, New Zealand

"Who said Kiwis can't fly...though this one can organise for a kit of the Fletcher FU24 to be produced!"

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2019, 11:34:44 AM »
 >:DDon't give them ideas!!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2019, 12:48:41 PM »
I saw tweets and posts about the F-21 and was very confused.

Maybe the winner of Future Vertical Lift will be the H-21?  ;D

H-21 has already been used, wait, let’s not start that again.....

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 12:03:59 AM »
Perhaps they will really confuse matters and designate the Bell V-280 as the V-21. ::)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 01:49:58 AM »
Don't make me come over there and slap you 21 times! C:-)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline KiwiZac

  • Once crowned Mango King by Brian da Basher!
  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 12:38:47 PM »
Is that an S-21?  ;D
With warm regards from Whanganui, New Zealand

"Who said Kiwis can't fly...though this one can organise for a kit of the Fletcher FU24 to be produced!"

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 02:51:50 AM »
Is that an S-21?  ;D

That’s it.

Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap!   C:-)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 03:39:16 AM »
Perhaps they will really confuse matters and designate the Bell V-280 as the V-21. ::)

So the V-280 came before the V-22?  ;)

Offline The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 03:03:50 AM »


Indonesian Air Force is eyeing the F-16V. (F-21)
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 03:24:15 AM »
I wonder if the F-35 sensors and brains could be transplanted into the latest model of what ever you want to call it? Can’t imagine it would be easy but the capability would be awesome.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2019, 08:22:30 AM »
I wonder if the F-35 sensors and brains could be transplanted into the latest model of what ever you want to call it? Can’t imagine it would be easy but the capability would be awesome.
The radar, or a variant of it, would be easy.  Stuffing in the DAS and EOTS would be a monumental chore.  You might, though, be able to install the MADL, though even that would require a shoehorn (not so much for the antennas, though finding appropriate available surface real estate for them might be difficult, but for the black boxes that are needed).

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 02:09:44 AM »
Interestingly I was only just looking at the potential Indonesian order yesterday for work reasons...

Re upgrades, I believe the AN/APG-83 SABR radar is probably the most advanced available now that would fit inside the F-16.  It's derived from the F-22’s APG-77 and the F-35’s APG-81.  The issue with trying to plug in a version (even cut down) of the AN/APG-81 is that it is heavy liquid cooled (just about every part) and the F-16 doesn't have a cooling system able to support it (and I doubt even the Block 60's would cut it).  To add it in would be like adding in a complete circulatory system...

Other sensors such as DAS/EOTS might be a challenge too as Evan has stated.  Mind you, one might be able to retrofit some of the features of the Block 60 such as the IR/EO turret.

MADL should be doable but again as Evan said, a challenge.

That all said, it would be interesting to do a fantasy ultimate F-16 - say what might have been forced if the F-35 had gotten cancelled.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 02:13:17 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2019, 04:51:11 AM »
That all said, it would be interesting to do a fantasy ultimate F-16 - say what might have been forced if the F-35 had gotten cancelled.
Hmm, perhaps with a production version of the diverterless inlet tested on the AFTI-16?  I wonder if a F135 could be shoehorned into a F-16 or if you would need to stick with the F110-GE-132 used on the F-16E/F?

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2019, 03:09:56 AM »
Hmm, perhaps with a production version of the diverterless inlet tested on the AFTI-16?  I wonder if a F135 could be shoehorned into a F-16 or if you would need to stick with the F110-GE-132 used on the F-16E/F?

Indeed.  Theoretically a F135 might just fit into a F-16 - it would depend on attachment points, accessories etc.  but from rough physical size/weight etc it should go.  Airflow might be an issue though.  Stick on a full vectoring nozzle, some additional LO features...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Lockheed Martin F-21 (ex-F-16V Block 70)
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2019, 10:22:18 PM »
Perhaps go with a version of the F100 rated at 32,000 lbt in afterburner since P&W were the ones who flew a vectoring nozzle and a LO nozzle (not together) on experimental F1-6s.