Author Topic: What if the StuG III idea survived?  (Read 3961 times)

Offline kerick

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What if the StuG III idea survived?
« on: February 22, 2016, 12:15:56 AM »
I'm considering converting a Tamiya M-41 Walker Bulldog into a Cold War era assault gun. I have a 90mm gun from an M-48 and the 105mm gun from an M-51 Isherman. I'm thinking the 90mm might work better. The super structure would be sheet plastic and a new engine compartment would be pattered after the M-48, M-60 series. What do you think?

Offline Kelmola

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 01:39:08 AM »
But the idea did survive, at least partially, as Kanonenjagdpanzer and Stridsvagn 103 can attest :)

Online LemonJello

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 02:54:41 AM »
I think I'm looking forward to seeing some photos of this project.

Offline Crbad

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 05:06:51 AM »
I had an idea to make an American hetzer/jagdpanzer using a turret from a M-48 in a fixed gun position. I couldn't decide on a cast hull Sherman or a M-24 Chaffee for the body.
Craig's Bureau of Aeronautics Design: Shoddy engineering and marginal skill for the undiscerning modelling enthusiast.

Offline kerick

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 05:19:49 AM »
The M-41 hull is close to the StuG III hull in size so I thought it would be a good candidate. And much like the StuG it would follow the same path as a reuse/adaptation of a tank hull that wasn't really up to the task any more. I think I'll go with the 90mm gun as the StuG's mission as designed was infantry support. A 105mm would be excessive.

But the idea did survive, at least partially, as Kanonenjagdpanzer and Stridsvagn 103 can attest :)

I had forgotten about those two, thanks.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 09:53:16 AM »
I have always liked the concept and see them as a replacement for towed guns.  Even in WWII towed and pack, infantry support, howitzers and guns, of around 75mm were still pretty common and towed anti tank guns became very common, following the war they pretty much disappeared, replaced with recoilless rifles if anything. 

To have Stugs survive all you need is for these towed infantry support guns and AT guns (and their tow vehicles) to be replaced with casemate type Assault Guns / Tank Destroyers, either as platoon embedded in mechanised battalions, or battalions supporting Infantry Divisions.  Armoured and Cavalry units and formations would use close support versions of what ever tank they operate, i.e. CS Infantry and Cruiser Tanks for the British Armoured Regiments and M8s or 105mm Shermans for the US Armoured battalions and Cavalry Regiments.  I believe the 165mm L9 demolition gun was originally designed and intended as a replacement for the 95mm gun as the CS counterpart to the 17 (or perhaps 20) pdr.  Perhaps this could be an option for a post war casemate assault gun.

Love the idea and looking forward to the result, you will probably finish long before I start my planned Australian post war Stug.

Offline Gingie

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 12:23:20 PM »
RB barrels make a very nice JgPzK 90mm gun in brass.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 10:26:04 PM »

Offline kerick

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 10:50:03 AM »
Thanks for the comments! I've been searching for StuG pics to see just how to go about this. Plus rebuilding the M-41 engine compartment should make this an interesting build. I wonder if the engine deck from a 1/48th M-48 or M-60 would fit the M-41.

Offline Gingie

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 11:13:28 AM »
Kind of stuggy looking M113...probably not much of a stretch from an assault howitzer to a direct-fire assault gun...


Offline kerick

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 11:25:26 AM »
Wow, I've never seen that before! Thanks.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 04:10:17 AM »
Proposed back in 1977 by FMC/Krauss Maffei/Rheinmetall as the M113 Fire Support Combat Vehicle:










It was to be armed with a 105mm gun.
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Offline Gingie

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2016, 04:38:02 AM »
I don't see any room for traversing the barrel though.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2016, 07:16:09 AM »
You traverse the vehicle, instead.

For anti-tank roles the traversing gun is essential but for fire-support it's just as easy to traverse the vehicle, & reduces the number of components required for the gun system.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: What if the StuG III idea survived?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 02:29:41 AM »
Dare I say that if you adhere to the original function of the StuG III the lack of traverse is not an issue.  The StuG III was designed to fill an infantry close support combat role.  It was only later, as the German military situation deteriorated that StuGs took on more of the tank destroyer role.
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