Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 456713 times)

Offline Silver Fox

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1025 on: March 28, 2014, 06:21:58 AM »
As the Flivver is one of my all time favourite Golden Era aircraft...

BRAVO SIR! BRAVO! :)

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1026 on: March 29, 2014, 04:52:49 AM »
Cheers 'Fox!

Jon: Thanks for the correction. I had confused the supercharged 303 V16 with the 308 V8! If anyone want to further explore this Miller muddle ...
http://www.rickcarey.com/Catalog%20Descriptions/RM%20LA%20052502%20Miller%20V16.htm
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1027 on: March 29, 2014, 05:32:12 AM »
Sweet!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1028 on: April 02, 2014, 06:18:55 AM »
Building Dewoitines in America

I was surprised to read that Ford had been contracted by France to license-build an Allison V-1710-powered Dewoitine D.520 development in the US. So, this is more of an 'almost-was' rather than a true whif ...

I moved the dates back so that the first Ford-built D.522C.1s were arriving in France just before the Armistice. The D.522 would have been weakly armed compared with the D.520 (having lost the 20mm cannon). I'm imagining the Armée de l'Air issuing them to Groupes Aériens d'Observation to act as tactical recce fighters.

The Aéronavale was also expecting deliveries of D.520s. Instead, I've got the navy receiving D.522s which were issued to Escadrilles AC1 and AC2 (Avions de Chasse).

Then the whif starts. In the RW, Ford was also working on a new, fuel-injected V-12. This engine was to have the same dimension as the Royce-Rolls Merlin and similar construction (aluminum block and heads) but would have had dual overhead camshafts.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5494.0.html

In my whif, Ford accelerates development of their V-12 to replace Allison V-1710C-15s. To save on development time, the Ford V-12 was adapted to take the Szydlowski-Planiol S-39-H3 supercharger from the D.520's Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine. The opportunity was also taken to allow for the installation of an HS404 moteur-canon firing through the hub of a Ratier 1060 propeller.

In early May 1940, production at Ford Aircraft Division's Oakland County plant shifted to the new fighter -- dubbed D.523 by SNCAM and the AdlA. Ford had its own designation system.  Ford applied Type 15 to the D.520 (later F.150 to follow French designation patterns). Ford-built D.522s became the Type 15A/F.151. The Type 15B/F.152 was a still-born plan to build Merlin-powered D.520s. So, the Ford V-12-powered aircraft became the Type 15B/F.153.

[To be continued ...]
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1029 on: April 02, 2014, 06:33:26 AM »
Very beautiful new silhouettes. I love your parallel universe :-*

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1030 on: April 02, 2014, 03:27:10 PM »
Excellent as always. I can't believe how good looks the lower one with(out) markings.  :)

I also must add that you're confused me a little with those choppers. I'm not saying that they aren't good, but I'm the old-fashioned guy and I'm always happy to see something from the Golden Age or WWII.
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never...

Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1031 on: April 05, 2014, 12:04:24 AM »
The Ford V-12 valve gear was fairly 'Miller-ish', if you catch my drift.  ;)

BTW the S-P supercharger was one of the weaknesses of the H12Y, it was not the best of designs.
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Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1032 on: April 05, 2014, 03:38:30 PM »
Thanks folks. Vuk: My preference is for 1930-1945 too. But it is an on-going puzzle to me why helicopter producers have such difficulty getting completely new models into service these days. It made me wonder why there haven't been more military evolutions of older designs.

Jon: The Miller V-16 was what made me think of the unbuilt Ford V-12 ;)

Thanks for the tip on the Szydlowski-Planiol. I went with that design mostly because the Ford's supercharger hung down so far (RW, maybe intended for bombers?). In any case, it wasn't going to fit easily on to a Dewoitine!
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1033 on: April 05, 2014, 03:40:17 PM »
Ford-Built Dewoitines after the Fall of France

The Ford F.152s in production as D.522s Forbans (Pirates) could not be delivered after the Fall of France. These fighters were stockpiled at Ford Aircraft Division's Oakland County facility until a new buyer could be found.

The cannon-armed F.153 prototype was tested the USAAC and it was suggested that the Allison-engined F.152s could be employed as fighter trainers. However the US Government was more interested in buying combat types.

Interest in the F.152 was first expressed by a purchasing commission of the Chinese Nationalist government. After trials in Michigan, the 24 completed F.152s (including the prototype were quietly shipped to China. These fighters equipped ROCAF 5th Group's 17th Squadron (replacing Dewoitine D.510s). Illustrated is a well-worn Chinese F.152 at Kunming in May 1942 (note that the lower undercarriage leg covers have been removed to clear mud).

Ford had anticipated that the USAAC would not be interested in the F.153 beyond its cannon armament. In an attempt to improve the breed, Ford undertook a redesign of the fighter. For the F.154, the Dewoitine fuselage was rearranged - the cockpit being moved forward and the fuel tank moved aft (in the style of the Curtiss P-36A). The prototype was delivered to Wright Field as the XP-45A* in September 1940.

The prototype F.154 was unarmed but it was intended that production versions be fitted with 4 x .30" wing guns and a .75" motor-cannon. Designed specifically for the V-1640 Fortis engine, the cannon fired a .75" x .325" HE round (making the gun lighter and more compact than the 20mm HS404).
------------------------

* NB: The RW P-45 designation was applied to what emerged at the P-39C Airacobra.

[To be continued ...]
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1034 on: April 05, 2014, 05:07:56 PM »
I love this moving back and forth of the canopy (while I prefer the rear position). I have played like that with a P-51.
Thanks for this further enrichment of the poor D.520 family...

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1035 on: April 11, 2014, 06:25:01 AM »
Foxhunter - Ford-Built Dewoitines in RAF Service

Although the Ford F.154 was of no interest to the US military, the RAF was happy to accept it. The Foxhunter Mk.IA entered service in late 1941 (all being  desert-adapted Mk.Is). Powered by the V-1640 Fortis engine, the early Foxhunters were armed with 4 x .303" wing guns and the .75" motor-cannon.

(Top) A Foxhunter Mk.IA AK523 of No 5 Sqn SAAF flown by its CO, Major Andrew Duncan, DFC. This aircraft had some field modifications -- tailwheel locked down to ease maintenance and a .50" nose gun to simplify ammunition supply.

Foxhunter GL+R was shot down south of Acroma on 31 May 1942 by Oblt. Otto Schulz in a Bf 109F of II/JG27.

The Foxhunter Mk.V (F.157) represented a major redesign of the Ford fighter. An extra forward fuselage bay was inserted to accommodate a broader-chord laminar-flow wing. In the Foxhunter Mk.V, the extra fuselage length allowed use of the RAF's preferred 20mm Hispano gun firing through the propellor hub. The Foxhunter Mk.VI reverted to the more compact .75" motor-cannon which allowed for an additional small fuel tank.

(Bottom) A Foxhunter Mk.VI of No 237 (Rhodesia) Squadron upon arrival in Corsica in late October 1943. No 237 later took part in Operation Dragoon, the Allied invasion of southern France, where Free French Dewoitine D.520s were encountered.

[Fin]
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1036 on: April 11, 2014, 08:15:46 AM »
Sweet!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1037 on: April 11, 2014, 09:36:51 AM »
Very pretty (in a good way)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1038 on: April 11, 2014, 12:28:44 PM »
Beautiful result, once again :-* :-*

Offline lauhof52

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1039 on: April 11, 2014, 06:52:49 PM »
Beautiful!! :-*

Offline Silver Fox

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1040 on: April 12, 2014, 06:58:39 AM »
WOW! The Foxhunter is just stunning!

Great work as always.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1041 on: April 23, 2014, 07:37:05 AM »
Thanks folks. Something a bit more modern this time ... extending the E-9 family for TF-ODIN-E.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1042 on: April 23, 2014, 09:06:14 AM »
A DHC-8 full of electronics? That could be a great entry in the group build "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB"
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?board=52.0

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1043 on: April 23, 2014, 12:37:42 PM »
^^ What he said.  By the way, I love the Dewoitines.  So pretty.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline arc3371

  • Takes no responsibility should anyone try to turn the drawings into plastic...but we will still hold him accountable for the madness that ensues!!!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1044 on: April 25, 2014, 06:57:54 PM »
The Foxhunters look great

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1045 on: April 26, 2014, 01:27:05 AM »
I keep imagining the 530 with a RR Kestrel or Peregrine.  And this being me there has to be an Australian link somewhere.  Maybe Australian production set up to supply French Indochina forces in attempt to fend off the Japanese?  Kestrel selected as it had been in production in Australia for locally produced Hawker Furies and Demons, switching to the Peregrine as when the RAAF selected the Whirlwind.  Of course with the fall of France the Dewoitines ended up in RAAF service and defending Singapore and Malaya.

Sorry for the thread highjack  :-[

Offline upnorth

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1046 on: April 26, 2014, 05:41:22 PM »
A DHC-8 full of electronics? That could be a great entry in the group build "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB"
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?board=52.0


Boeing tried to make that happen when they still owned DeHavilland Canada.

It was a maritime patrol aircraft called the Triton and it was based on the "Gonzo" navigation trainer version of the Dash 8. Boeing couldn't get the Canadian Forces interested in it and the project was cancelled.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1047 on: April 27, 2014, 03:21:12 AM »
That would be this one:

Quote
Boeing realized  that this 'Gonzo' layout could be readily adapted to the maritime patrol role. Adding bubble windows for observers and fuselage side armaments racks. Boeing dubbed the 1986 maritime patrol Dash 8 derivative the Triton. For ASW, Triton was to have 4 underwing pylons and  2 fuselage hardpoints (for Harpoon or Exocet missiles ). A MAD tail 'stinger' was to be installed along with the usual maritime search radar and other sensors.

Fully equipped, the Triton's endurance was to be more than 11 hours.  Boeing offered their Triton as a general maritime patrol aircraft  based on a short-bodied DHC-8-200 airframe and a stretched-fuselaged Dash 8M-300 ASW Triton. In the absence of Canadian Forces interest in this proposed series, it is small wonder that no export orders for Triton were forthcoming. Boeing dropped the Triton concept and, shortly afterwards, sold off  De Havilland Canada.

Boeing of  Canada Ltd.'s interest in its de Havilland Division only lasted a half decade. In 1992, Boeing finally found a buyer for DHC – Bombardier Aerospace of  Dorval, PQ – which continued Dash 8 production as their Q Series.  Bombardier has made a few token efforts at promoting the Q Series airframe for maritime patrol.  But it has been the systems integration specialists that have actually delivered in that area. In the US, Sierra Research produced the E-9A Widget adaptation for the USAF. Most of the Dash 8/Q Series adaptations for maritime patrol (or surveillance) have been for Coast Guards and other non-military users. So, Boeing of  Canada was on the right track. They had just pitched to the wrong customers.


Source
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1048 on: April 28, 2014, 10:57:13 AM »
That's the one   ;D

Tophe has prompted an entry into the "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB". This time, the electro-Dash 8s are in Australia (including a pair of 'Gonzo'-link entries  ;)

One is up now: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.0
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1049 on: April 29, 2014, 07:42:29 AM »
Next installment in the RAAF Project Wairi story ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.msg70157#msg70157
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."