Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 459515 times)

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #975 on: January 22, 2014, 03:27:27 PM »
That three illustration series flows purrrfect and so does background  :)

Offline Silver Fox

  • Talk to me Goose!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #976 on: January 24, 2014, 05:13:58 AM »
I LOVE IT!

Curtis designed the "Corsair" first, screwed it up and reversed the evolution.

By the time Vought gets around to it eh Navy is thoroughly gun-shy and wants nothing to do with something that bears so much of a resemblance. :)

Great work as always.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #977 on: January 24, 2014, 05:42:54 AM »
Cheers folks! Here's more on the alt-Curtiss story ...

The Curtiss Model 75 Hawk -- Domestic Success at Last!

In 1934, the US Army Air Corps issued a requirement for a new 'Pursuit' fighter aircraft. The timing could not have been better for Curtiss. Several months earlier, a team led by Don Berlin had begun a private-venture design for a new all-metal single-seat fighter.

The Model 75 employed the outer wing panels of the 2-seat Model 70 Cohort. As on Curtiss' Model  74 naval fighter, these panels were now joined on the centre line with their Boeing-patented retractable undercarriage moved outboard.

The fuselage of the Model 75 was a completely new design. This was a monocoque dural structure joined on the centre line after equipment was installed (including a rear fuselage fuel tank).  Power for the Model 75 was provided by an improved Curtiss V-1647 Curvet liquid-cooled V-12  with a new 2-stage supercharger.

The prototype Model 75 first flew in June 1935 but the MonoHawk-style radiator bath proved 'draggier' than expected. As the USAAC pursuit competition wasn't scheduled to begin until  August, Curtiss has time to tweak  their design. The block-type coolant radiator was removed and replaced but a U-shaped radiator which followed the contours of the bottom of the engine.

The new radiator arrangement reduced drag and increased maximum speed by 8 mph. The revised prototype, as the Curtiss Model 75A (unofficially refered to a the Hawk) was delivered to Wright Field at the end of July 1934. With a proven, reliable engine, the Model 75A was easily able to outperform it competitors fitted  with the USAAC's preferred Wright R-1820 radial (which was experience oil feed problems).

The USAAC accepted the prototype as their XP-36 and ordered a small production run of P-36A  pursuit fighters (Curtiss Model 75A-1s). Production P-36As differed from the prototype in being  fitted with 3-bladed propellers (it being reasoned that this would increase the rate of fire  from the synchronized cowl guns).  All but one of the production fighters were armed with 20mm  Curtiss-Madsen motor cannons (with twin .50-calibre Browning cowl guns and another pair of .30-cal Brownings in their wings). The third production aircraft (Model 75A-2) was armed with three .50-cal Brownings -- one firing through the propeller hub, plus two cowl guns.

___________________________

"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #978 on: January 24, 2014, 10:12:23 AM »
Elegant designs! but... if the Model 75/P-36 has already an in-line engine, what will justify the P-40 code? A R-2000 or R-2800 engine?

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #979 on: January 25, 2014, 08:48:38 AM »
... if the Model 75/P-36 has already an in-line engine, what will justify the P-40 code? ...

Patience Tophe  :D  However, you might like le contenu de la France that follows ...

Curtiss Success Abroad -- the Model 76 'Export Hawks'

When the Curtiss Model 75 fighter appeared in mid-1935, its performance caused quite a stir. However, US labour costs had already pushed unit costs to almost double that of contempory foreign monoplane fighters. The Model 75's monocoque fuselage structure was also beyond the capabilities of several smaller nations interested in licence construction.

To address these concerns, Don Berlin and team turned their attention to a more economical  fighter for export.  As recounted earlier, the remains of the damaged XF13C-1 naval fighter had been returned to Curtiss. This airframe formed the basis for the Model 76 export fighter (initially known as the Model 74E within Curtiss).

Simpler fuselage construction methods were employed on the Model 76 'Export Hawk'. In place of the monocoque structure of the Model 75, Curtiss returned to the MonoHawk's fabric-covered welded steel tube framework. A similar technique was used for the fixed empennage. The wing, however, retained the Model 75's sophisticated, multi-spar dural structure. But Curtiss offered its potential licencees the option of dometically- or US-built wings to be incorporated with locally-made fuselages and tails.

The prototype Model 76 retained the Model 74N's Chieftain II air-cooled powerplant. That  engine was chosen by Argentina for its Model 76AR 'Conquistador' and by Siam for its fixed-gear Model 76SI (with underwing 20mm Madsen guns). The big order for the 'Export Hawk', however,  came as a surprise even to Curtiss.

In 1938, France established a Commission des Achats in New York to buy US-made armaments. Members of this purchasing commission toured the Curtiss factory in Buffalo, NY where P-36 fighters were being  produced. The prototype Model 76 was also viewed. The cost advantages of the simpler Model 76 were obvious as were the performance benefits of the Model 75. So, the question arose: Why couldn't the Curvet powerplant of the Model 75 been installed in the Model 76 airframe?

France placed orders for 250 Curtiss Model 76FR fighters in three batches (75 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-1s , 75 x HS 12Y-45-powered Model 76FR-2s, and 100 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-3s) to augment its lagging Dewoitine D.515 production. The USAAC was somewhat alarmed by the size of this French order, fearing that Curtiss would be unable to meet its P-36 delivery schedule. Initially, the US Government was reluctant to approve this export contract. However, when Curtiss' lawyers pointed out that
both the V-1647 Curvet engine and the Model 76 airframe had been private-ventures paid for by Curtiss, approval for export was quickly granted.
__________________________
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #980 on: January 25, 2014, 03:07:32 PM »
France placed orders for 250 Curtiss Model 76FR fighters in three batches (75 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-1s , 75 x HS 12Y-45-powered Model 76FR-2s, and 100 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-3s)
They are so nice... If I were the President, the order would have been 2,500+750+1,000...

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #981 on: January 27, 2014, 12:56:34 PM »
Expanding the Breed -- Curtiss Model 75 Hawk Derivatives

Since the collapse of the merger with Wright, Curtiss management had resisted using engines made by  competitiors. This served Curtiss well in the case of the Model 75. However, the Army Air Corps  persisted with requests for a radial-engined Model 75 with which comparisons trails could be made.

With P-36A deliveries well underway, Curtiss finally relented. A P-36A airframe was taken from the  Buffalo production line and adapted to the most well-developed American radial engine suited to fighter aircraft -- the Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp. Completed as the Model 75P, the P&W engine was fan-cooled allowing it to be enclosed in a tight-fitting cowling. To get around competitor's  problems with overheated collector rings, Curtiss ran individual exhaust pipes to a fuselage-side vent.

The Model 75P was delivered to Wright Field for trials. Although it remained company-owned, the Model 75P was designated XP-40 for the comparison trials with a service P-36A. For speed trials, both fighters were unarmed and highly polished to gauge their Vmax. The Model 75P performed well in its trials but offered little advantage over the production P-36A. By comparison, the 'Pratt Hawk' would be inferior in armament, having to give up the Madsen motor cannon.

No Army Air Corps orders were forthcoming for the P-40 but the Model 75P served as an aerodynamic  testbed for Curtiss, trialling clipped wing tips, more streamlined tailwheel enclosures, a bulged  canopy, and other attempts at improving the Model 75 line.

Turbocharged -- The High-Altitiude Curtiss XP-37 'TurboHawk'

The Army Air Corps was also interested in turbocharged, high-altitude interceptors. The planned  fighter was the radical Bell XP-39. But the USAAC wanted a simpler backup design. Curtiss was asked to provide a turbocharged P-36 derivative. This appeared as the Model 75T 'TurboHawk'.

To create the Model 75T, Don Berlin adapted the XP-36A airframe to take a General electric 'Form 10' turbocharger in the rear fuselage. Extended exhaust pipes fed the turbocharger and an intercooler was squeezed in between the turbo and the repositioned radio compartment.

The turbocharger proved unreliable and, eventually, suffered a main bearing failure. The 'Form 10'  unit was replaced by GE's improved B-2 turbocharger. This production-quality turbo was superior but there were still reliability issues. Nonetheless, the USAAAC wished to press on and requested that the prototype Model 75T be transferred to Wright Field at Dayton, OH, for evaluation as the XP-37.

After taking off from Buffalo Airport on 13 May 1937 enroute for Wright Field, the XP-37's turbo began overspeeding. The pilot, Herbert O. Fisher, throttled back and turned for Buffalo but the prototype was soon rocked by a catastrophic turbine failure. With the tail control lines severed, the pilot had no option but to abandon the aircraft. Fisher hit the silk and the by-now flaming XP-37 was lost in Lake Erie.
_______________________________________________
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #982 on: January 27, 2014, 01:08:10 PM »
I'll take a dozen of the top one, please!

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #983 on: January 27, 2014, 11:38:53 PM »
Great enrichment to the Curtiss Family (Beauty Department) :-*

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #984 on: January 28, 2014, 01:11:09 AM »
mmmm and then the Russians found out about the "TurboHawk" and told  Nikolai Polikarpov to design something as sleek (MiG-1 which was developed into MiG-3).

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #985 on: January 30, 2014, 12:06:34 PM »
Thanks folks! If there's interest, I'll return to the wartime Curtisses later ...

I'll take a dozen of the top one, please!

Cheers Logan! Were I doing it again, I think the XP-40 would get an extended rear fuselage (she looks a little nose heavy with that engine-cooling fan up front).
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #986 on: January 30, 2014, 12:09:30 PM »
The Bowless Arrow -- Fiat's G.48 Freccia

The first Fiat monoplane fighter design came from Giuseppe Gabrielli. But  Ing. Gabrielli was dodged by engine availability. His first foray into monoplane fighters was the Fiat A.37-powered G.48 (I). But this V-12 (a 26 L derivative of the A.30 stroked to 152 mm) was cancelled in favour of more advanced engine designs.

The G.48 (II) was redesigned to accept Fiat's A.38 RI.C.15/45, a 1200 hp inverted 16-cylinder type derived from the earlier, 24-cylinder AS.6 racing engine. A functioning engineering mockup of the G.48 (II) was completed in time to be exhibited at the Milan Air Show in Dec 1936.

The 'prototype' G.48 (II) was a bit of Fascisti showmanship. Neither the airframe nor the engine were airworthy -- the latter being little more than a dressed-up block. Fiat would struggle for several years with the A.38 V-16 but the G.48 needed a functioning engine.

The true prototype G.48 flew on 23 March 1937 from Caselle, Turin. This aircraft was powered by a 900 hp Isotta Fraschini Asso Caccia L.121 R.C.40 V-12.* This was a heavy engine so the coolant radiator was moved from under the nose to beneath the cockpit to re-establish the c/g.
___________________________________

* An inverted version of the L.121 version of the Asso, the A.120 R.C.40, was originally planned.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #987 on: January 30, 2014, 12:15:58 PM »
Cheers Logan! Were I doing it again, I think the XP-40 would get an extended rear fuselage (she looks a little nose heavy with that engine-cooling fan up front).

By the way, did you figure out the scale on that R-1830?  It looked a little small, to be honest.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #988 on: January 30, 2014, 12:44:50 PM »
Nice G.48, almost as beautiful as a G.55 :-*

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #989 on: February 06, 2014, 04:59:54 AM »
By the way, did you figure out the scale on that R-1830?  It looked a little small, to be honest.

You may be right Logan. I wanted a much tighter cowling (more La-5 than P-36) but just guesstimated the size for that image.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #990 on: February 06, 2014, 05:02:31 AM »
'If it weren't for bad luck, Giuseppe Gabrielli wouldn't have no luck at all.'

Ing. Gabrielli's problems with engine availability continued with his G.48 design. The inverted Asso Caccia A.120 R.C.40 proved overweight and was abandoned. Count Ciano's attempts to normalize relations with Czechoslovakia suggested the possibility of licenced production of the Avia 1000, an HS.12Y development. Accordingly, the Fiat G.48 (II) mockup was adapted to the Czech upright V12 engine.

To speed the process, Fiat began small-scale production of the G.48 (IIAv) at the CMASA factory in Marina di Pisa. But Italo-Czechoslovak relations collapsed and with them went any chance of producing the Avia 1000 in Italy. CMASA found itself with a line of semi-completed G.48 fighters and no engines.

CMASA designer, Manlio Stiavelli, saw an opportunity to test a catapult fighter concept for a Servizio Aeronautico della Regia Marina requirement. CMASA had already provided the Regia Marina with a floatfighter using the G.48 (I) wing, the Fiat/CMASA ICR.36. If the proposed  catapult fighter design was successful, a float version might also eclipse the ICR.36.

The Fiat/CMASA G.48C (for Catapultibile) used the same Fiat A.30 engine as the ICR.36. The fighter was underpowered but successfully proved the catapult fighter concept. The Regia Marina requested that the remaining 12 G.48 (IIAv) airframes be completed as G.48Cs to familiarize the Squadriglie Caccia Marittima with catapult fighters. The converted G.48Cs formed a training  unit at the Pola training school at Puntisella. The aircraft illustrated here is the prototype G.48C conversion at Marina di Pisa prior to being transferred to the Pola school.
_____________________________
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #991 on: February 06, 2014, 05:52:42 AM »
Ah, lovely.  The top one looks very much like the Arsenal VG-33.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #992 on: February 06, 2014, 12:52:51 PM »
Beautiful family, thanks! :-*

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #993 on: February 12, 2014, 10:15:42 AM »
The top one looks very much like the Arsenal VG-33.

Thanks Logan ... that was the look I was going for.

Fiat/CMASA G.49 - A Second Arrow in the Quiver

With its old Fiat A.30 engine, the Fiat/CMASA G.48C catapult trainer was never going to be an operational aircraft. Knowing the Regia Marina's preference for air-cooled engines, CMASA designer, Manlio Stiavelli, proposed a G.48 variant re-engined with the only available Fiat powerplant with a reputation for reliability -- the A.74 14-cylinder radial.

The RM agreed to Stiavelli's proposal but wanted to test this new model as a potential replacement for the now-outdated ICR.36 seaplane. Accordingly, CMASA adapted a G.48C airframe for both the A.74 radial and for modernized versions of the ICR.36's twin floats. The finished float fighter, designated ICS.49, was delivered to the Pola training school at
Puntisella. The RM was also expressed interested in a 'catapultibile' version of the same airframe. However, at this point, the Ministero della Aeronautica intervened. The Regia Marina had lost its chance at a new fighter design.

(Top) The prototype prior to its transfer to the Pola training school at Puntisella (and before having its SAFAR A.R.C.1 radio receiver installed).

Giuseppe Gabrielli had also been developing his fighter design, the Daimler-Benz powered G.50. The G.50 prototype was being demonstrated to the Regia Aeronautica at Guidonia and production of this refined version had already begun at the Fiat factory in Turin. Stiavelli quickly adapted his A.74-powered design to the airframe of the G.50. The result was the CS.49bis.

The CS.49bis was ordered for the RA's Gruppi d'Assalto as a partial replacement for the unstasfactory Breda 65. The Sottoserie 0 CS.49bis were conversions of Fiat-built airframes. For the Serie 1, CMASA combined Turin-built components with Marina di Pisa-built forward fuselages and engine mounts.

The CS.49bis Serie 1 were armed with four 7.7mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns (two in the cowl and one in each outer wing panel) and fitted with a centre-line bomb rack. The Serie 2 was uparmed with two 12.7mm Breda-SAFATs requiring twin bumps in the cowl (earning the type the nickname of "l'urto"). The Serie 2 could be fitted with twin underwing bomb racks or a single centre section rack. The Serie 3 reintroduced the wing 7.7mm guns but at the expense of the wing rack option. The main production type, the Serie 4, returned to the Serie 2 armament arrangement but incorporated some cockpit armour and a dust-filter for the supercharger intake.

(Bottom) A Fiat/CMASA CS.50bis (Serie 2) of 159ª Squadriglia, 12º Gruppo, 50° Stormo d'Assalto, Libya, Nov-Dec 1940. Special markings include the Squadriglia emblem of Disney's Ezechiele Lupo ('Zeke Wolf' aka il lupo cattivo) on the tail fin together with "Antonio Dell'Oro" (in memory of the fallen Squadriglia Commander, Capitano Dell'Oro).
______________________________
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Silver Fox

  • Talk to me Goose!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #994 on: February 12, 2014, 12:18:50 PM »
I REALLY like the float version... very sexy!

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #995 on: February 13, 2014, 03:07:37 PM »
R-1830 varied from a little over 45 inches to 48 inches in diameter, F-series V-1710 was 37.6 inches high.
So that's a rough start for engine dimensions, however those numbers do not directly transfer to airframe cowl
lines as how the engine is mounted and how closely it is cowled determine the actual mould line. P & W engineer
Andrew Wilgoos hated the oversized nacelles of the Douglas C-74 for the R-4360, sarcastically suggesting they
use the extra area as a luggage compartment.

P & W had been working on improved higher power R-1535 in the pre-war period, canceling development
after the 950hp -64 (forcing Grumman to change to R-1820s for the F5F) to concentrate on the R-1830 and
R-2800. So one wonders what a two-speed/two-stage or turbo-supercharged R-1535 could have done. The
R-1535 were ~ 44 inches in diameter.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #996 on: February 18, 2014, 09:48:32 AM »
Thanks Jon ... interesting stuff. A  two-stage R-1535 would've been interesting (although not much saved on diameter, I guess).

Here's another Fiat development. No backstory typed out yet ...
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #997 on: February 18, 2014, 11:30:43 AM »
Gorgeous! :-* :-*

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #998 on: February 27, 2014, 04:12:23 AM »
Thanks Tophe! Here's a pair for Silver Fox ...
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #999 on: February 27, 2014, 04:37:23 AM »
Very pretty, apophenia!  That bottom one is especially attractive.  It looks like Schneider goes to war!

Cheers,

Logan