Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 456708 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #925 on: November 19, 2013, 01:57:15 AM »
I wonder...landplane/fighter development of Supermarine S.6B?
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Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #926 on: November 19, 2013, 02:41:42 AM »
I wonder...landplane/fighter development of Supermarine S.6B?

You'd need to ditch the 'R' engine, simply too big and too delicate.
Give it a Kestrel and you'd actually have room in the airframe
for something other than just the engine.
 ;)
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Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #927 on: November 19, 2013, 02:56:38 AM »
I like the Harrier a lot!
... a couple of countries put radial engines on the Fury...

I might have to get back to my Macchi M39T, some time, and see what it needs to work as a fighter  ???

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #928 on: November 22, 2013, 05:44:27 AM »
Thanks folks ... Schneider-related development to come  ;)

perttime: Go on that fighter Macchi M39T  :)
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #929 on: November 22, 2013, 05:48:09 AM »
French and Franco-Spanish Low-wing Monoplane Fighters

Le Lorraine Hanriot avec un train escamotable

The Lorraine Hanriot LH 133 C1 was based upon the 1932 LH 131 Coupe Michelin racer. For the fighter design, Louis Montlaur lengthed the fuselage to balance the new SECM Lorraine 'Algol DE' (Algol double étoile) twin-row 18-cylinder radial (later renamed the Sirius 110). The wing was changed to an all-metal structure and flaps were installed.

Submitted for trials at the Centre d'Essais en Vol at Villacoublay in May 1934, the LH 133 C1 proved to have frightful handling characteristics. After two flights, trials were cancelled by the STAé and the prototype returned to the now independent Aeroplanes Hanriot et Cie. Tests with the redesignated H 133 C1 prototype continued but neither an enlarged tailplane nor a longer-span wing helped with handling.

Swiss, French, or Spanish? The Hispano-Delage 92

When Nieuport merged with Loire Aviation, former chief designer, Gustave Delage, retired. Delage went to work with Swiss watchmaker, Jaeger-LeCoultre, but also pitched his NiD 92 low-wing monoplane concept to Barcelona-based Hispano-Suiza. The latter had built Hispano-Nieuport 52s with very similar fuselages.

Spain's Aviación Militar accepted the new monoplane as the Hispano-Delage 92 C-1, intending to replace the less-than-satisfactory NiD 52. The prototype 'Tipo 92' was a heavily-modified HN 52 airframe powered by a 500 hp HS.12Hb driving a wooden propeller. The prototype featured fabric-covered wings and twin undercarriage leg-mounted Corominas radiators (which proved rather 'draggy').

The production HD 92 C-1 differed from the prototype most dramatically in having a more powerful HS 12X V12 engine with a horseshoe-shaped Chausson radiator in the extreme nose. The HS 12X drove a 2-bladed Helice Levasseur (in place of the prototypes wooden propeller). Dural-skinned wings replaced the fabric-covered units of the original. Armament consisted of two synchronized 7.7 mm Vickers machine guns.

HD 92 C-1 production began at the Fábrica Hispano-Suiza in Guadalajara in November 1934. The production model 'Tipo 92' served with two Aviación Militar Grupo as well as the Aeronáutica Naval's interceptor flight of the Escuadrilla de Combate y Adistramiento at San Javier.

A two-seater trainer version of the HD 92 was proposed as the E 34. This advanced trainer was to be powered by a licenced Hispano-Wright 9Qa radial engine. Unfortunately, neither the Aviación Militar nor Aeronaval had sufficient funds to proceed with the trainer project.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #930 on: November 22, 2013, 11:12:15 AM »
Thanks for the revival of the (almost forgotten) Lorraine-Hanriot family... :)

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #931 on: November 23, 2013, 01:06:13 AM »
I DO love your early monoplanes!  :-* :-*

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #932 on: November 23, 2013, 03:31:11 AM »
Those last two are very nice! :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #933 on: November 29, 2013, 11:37:42 AM »
Thanks folks!

Gloster Low-Wing Monoplane Fighters [Part 1]

The Gloster S.S.21 was a fighter derived from the 1929 Schneider Trophy racing seaplane, the Gloster VI 'Golden Arrow'. Initially, the S.S.21 was to be a straightforward landplane fighter development. However, the design team quickly realized that a cantilever wing would be aerodynamically cleaner and better able to support the fixed main undercarriage without recourse to additional stuts.

In 1930, the Gloster aircraft Company was entering a critical phase in its history. To speed aircraft design development, an in-house rivalry between two separate design teams was encouraged. In effect, the S.S.21 was a monoplane rival to Gloster's S.S.18/S.S.19 series which led to the Gauntlet biplane fighter.

Originally known as the 'Golden Arrow Fighter', the S.S.21 was to be powered by the Napier Lionheart -- a new, air-cooled derivative of Napier's venerable Lion 'broad-arrow' 12-cyl. Compared with the Lion, the Lionheart had an increased stroke (6 inch vs 5.125 in for the Lion). The resulting 1739 cid (28.5 L) Lionheart IA was expected to produce over 800 hp (compared with only 580 hp for the 1461 cid/24 L supercharged Lion).

Other than a raised cockpit, the S.S.21 fuselage differed little from that of the Gloster VI racer. The cantilever wing, however, was completely different. This wing employed typical Gloster construction  --  corrugated steel-strip spars and ribs -- but was covered with riveted dural sheeting in the American style.

The prototype S.S.21 came together quickly but the Napier Lionheart was still in its bench testing phase. To get the prototype into the air, a liquid-cooled Lion engine was substituted. Twin coolant radiators were scabbed on to the inner sides of the heavily trousered undercarriage legs. Using this arrangement, the prototype (G-EAYN) flew from Brockworth aerodrome in March 1934 before being sent on to RAF Martlesham Heath.

The Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment assessment of the S.S.21 'Goral' (as it had been re-dubbed) was not especially flattering. The Lion lacked power and its radiators reduced top speed performance dramatically. In its tested form, the A&AEE could see no advantage over the in-service Hawker Harrier monoplane fighter. However, further development was encourage based on official interest in the Goral's proposed six-gun armament which was all to be mounted within the cantilever wing.

Upon the Goral's return to Brockworth, Gloster test-installed a non-flightworthy Napier Lionheart engine. The engine installation presented no unexpected challenges. However, Napier's Lionheart design was already in trouble. Test bench examples of this air-cooled engine suffered great overheating. Fan-cooling suggested one solution but, in November 1934, Gloster was informed of Napier's decision to terminate Lionheart development. Obviously, a new powerplant was called for ...
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #934 on: November 29, 2013, 11:49:16 AM »
Oooh, very pretty.  Please continue.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #935 on: November 29, 2013, 11:50:50 AM »
Cheers Logan! More to come from Gloster ...  ;)
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Likes to brag about how long his...wings are.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #936 on: November 29, 2013, 05:58:19 PM »
What a fabulous looking aeroplane!

Brian da Basher will LOVE those spats too!  :)
Regards
Kit

--------------------------
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #937 on: November 30, 2013, 03:49:14 AM »
Sweet!

But those aren't spats...they're full on trousers!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #938 on: November 30, 2013, 06:39:32 AM »
Thanks lads!

'Kit: This whole thread was inspired by a What-would-Brian-Do notion. I can't match BdB's unbridled creativity but its fun to play in an adjacent field  ;)

Greg: Over time, BdB has expanded into being an equal opportunity undercarriage-leg coverer. Trousers are just spats bursting with confidence  :D

Gloster S.S.22 Gorcock II

At the time that its S.S.21 Goral was abandoned, Gloster was already working on a replacement monoplane fighter design. The S.S.22 retained the Goral's wing but featured a revised fuselage (thereby losing its final commonality with the Gloster VI racer. This deeper fuselage was required for new powerplants to replace the failed Napier Lionheart.

Napier had not entirely given up on the Lionheart design, only on its 'broad arrow' layout. Instead, complete Lionheart cylinder banks were to be arranged in a horizontal 'H' format. The resulting 2318.5 cid (38 L) brute of an engine would become Napier's Lion 16. It was hoped that the horizontal 'H' layout would allow for better cylinder air flow and, thus, avoid the Lionheart's fatal cooling problems.

As with the S.S.21, the S.S.22 prototype airframe was completed long before its intended powerplant. At the A&AEE's suggestion, Gloster substituted a 600 hp Rolls-Royce Kestrel VIS for the unavailable Lion 16. With the Kestrel installed, the prototype S.S.22 flew at Brockworth in March 1935. For cooling, twin radiators were mounted inboard of the new, rearward-retractable undercarriage. Partially buried within the wing, these radiators proved remarkably low in drag.

The G.22 prototype was unarmed but, as the Gorcock II, armament options were twin, synchronized .5-inch machine guns mounted in the fuselage sides with options of an additional pair of wing-mounted BSA guns or four .303-inch wing guns firing outside the propeller arc. After successful trials at Martlesham Heath, the RAF elected to purchase the Gorcock II as a four-gunned interceptor.

The first production Gloster Gorcock Mk.I arrived at Duxford to begin re-equipping No.19 Squadron in October 1935. The Gorcock II proved fast, rugged, and reliable in service but only ever served with on squadron. The RAF wanted more Gorcocks but, it was claimed, the Brockworth plant could handle production of only one type and outstanding orders existed for the Gauntlet biplane fighter.

It has been claimed by some that Gloster's new owners, Hawker Siddeley, killed the Gorcock II to protect their own Harrier series and its Harpy derivative. But, as usual, the real story is more complicated. The Gorcock Mk.II was to have been powered by Napier's new Lion 16 but that engine was experiencing extended teething problems. With Hawker Siddeley's decision to end Gorcock production, the Mk.II programme was terminated.

Although the Gorcock II was built in small numbers, it had a lasting influence. It was not by accident that Hawker's later-production Harpies had metal-skinned wings with built-in armament. The Napier Lion 16 proved too heavy as a fighter engine but later came into its own as a fan-cooled bomber powerplant.


"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #939 on: November 30, 2013, 08:05:13 AM »
Wicked!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #940 on: November 30, 2013, 11:24:11 AM »
I do love your Gorcock Mk II, thanks! :-*

Offline finsrin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #941 on: November 30, 2013, 12:33:04 PM »
S.S.21 Goral looks like it MUST be in some 1930s B&W aviation themed movie that I haven't seen yet.  :)
Should I be searching on Amazon or..... ?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 01:36:41 PM by finsrin »

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #942 on: December 08, 2013, 08:14:04 AM »
Thanks lads. I had a few other ideas for this theme but got waylaid by menengitis.  I don't recommend it. I mean, two full days of rapid-fire hallucincations and not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #943 on: December 08, 2013, 10:03:31 AM »
Glad you got over that! Meningitis can be fatal, dude! :o

:)

Guy
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Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #944 on: December 08, 2013, 11:05:53 AM »
Have a good recovery, apophenia... Take your time. We mostly need you alive, more than enjoying a constant rate of creations. ;)

Offline Silver Fox

  • Talk to me Goose!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #945 on: December 08, 2013, 01:24:30 PM »
YIKES!

I hope you have a speedy recovery and get back to full health soon.

I have to wonder though... When a whiffer hallucinates... wouldn't it be right for them to see realistic things?

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Likes to brag about how long his...wings are.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #946 on: December 08, 2013, 02:21:04 PM »
... wouldn't it be right for them to see realistic things?

Perish the thought!
Regards
Kit

--------------------------
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

Offline lauhof52

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #947 on: December 08, 2013, 02:55:49 PM »
Have a good recovery, apophenia... Take your time. We mostly need you alive, more than enjoying a constant rate of creations. ;)

I second that!

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #948 on: December 09, 2013, 03:54:55 PM »
Take care, man...

You are one of important players in these fields...

Wish You fast and successful recovery!
... and kill me again
or take me as I am,
for I shall not change...
never...

Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #949 on: December 09, 2013, 07:32:30 PM »
Ooof, sorry to hear that! Here's hoping for a speedy recovery. :)
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