Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 458274 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #750 on: April 08, 2013, 05:32:28 PM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline arc3371

  • Takes no responsibility should anyone try to turn the drawings into plastic...but we will still hold him accountable for the madness that ensues!!!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #751 on: April 09, 2013, 03:45:08 AM »
I like that!

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #752 on: April 09, 2013, 04:31:28 AM »
So very cool....

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #753 on: April 09, 2013, 07:29:31 AM »
Thanks folks!

In its on-going search for suitable engines for the Arsenal fighter, VL naturally turned to Germany. The Daimler-Benz 601A was the most desirable engine type but in heavy demand. But, in 1942, production of the Bf 110C was winding down and stocks of DB601B might become available.

As it happens VL had access to a Bf 110C-4 of 1.(Z)/JG 77. This battle-damaged aircraft had left Rovaniemi to make its way south to the Reich for repair. Alas, this Bf 110 suffered a
starboard undercarriage collapse while landing at Tampere for refuelling. With Luftwaffe permission, it was decided to fit the Bf 110's port engine to a D.33 airframe in a trial
installation.

VL's D.33 test mule, AL-2 was chosen for the job. Thus far, AL-2 had been through each of VL's Tuulihaukka incarnations. The aircraft's reputation hit a low point when fitted with a particularly tempermental M-105P (earning it the unflattering nickname of 'Makki').

VL D.33d 'Mersuhaukka' ('Mercedes Hawk')

With its ailing Klimov removed, AL-2's firewall was modified to take the engine mounts from the Messerschmitt. Engine installation proceeded very smoothly and it was found that the Bf 110 cowling fit the airframe almost without modification. The result was the sole D.33d (top).

Trials with the new 'Mersuhaukka' went well but also highlighted weak points in the adaptation. Weight had to be added in the rear fuselage to balance the new engine installation. But, critically, previously-marginal ground clearance for the propeller had now become almost non-existant. Clearly this was not acceptable for a fighter intended to operate from rough, forward airfields.

Predictably, while taxiing on soft ground at Tampere, the  D.33d's prop tips clipped the turf and the fighter nosed in. With its DB 601B and engine mounts damaged, firewall broken, and forward fuselage damaged by the resulting fire, AL-2's days as a much-abused testbed were over.

Uuden Hävittäjän Projekti - the VL D.42w (Wasp-moottori) Concept

The UHP (New Fighter Project) was a study programme to develop an indigenous replacement fighter for the VL-built Fokker D.XXI. Work was well underway on Arvo Ylinen's Myrsky project but VL wanted a back-up scheme. One possibility was a radial-engined D.33 development utilizing stocks of existing Arsenal components.

The 'Mersuhaukka' had shown the dangers on reduced ground clearance but the D.33d's remains also suggested a fix. A team under Torsti Verkkola had previously studied the possibility of attaching an Arsenal wing to the Fokker D.XXI airframe. Why not apply the same concept to the D.33 itself? Accordingly, the fire-damaged section of the D.33d airframe was removed and a new, welded steel-tube fuselage section added.

The new fuselage section widened the fuselage to accomodate a P&W Twin Wasp (from German war booty stocks or Svenska Flygmotor STWC-3). More importantly, the frames presented a lowered mounting point for the Arsenal wing, thereby 'lengthening' the undercarriage. The remains of D.33d thus formed a rough mockup of the proposed D.42w which was presented to the Ilmavoimat technical staff. However, the Ilmavoimat saw no compelling reason to deviate from the Myrsky.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #754 on: April 09, 2013, 08:45:38 AM »
AWESOME JOB!!!!!!!!!!

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #755 on: April 09, 2013, 10:14:27 AM »
Cheers Jorel! You may have notice your influence on 'Pariisilainen' in Reply #750  ;D

Uuden Hävittäjän Projekti - the Daimler-Benz powered Tuulihaukka Derivatives


VL D.42d 'Mersuhaukka II' Concept

Another project under UHP was a refinement of the Arsenal airframe to better suit the German Daimler-Benz engine. Responding to the fate of the D.33d demonstrator, an entirely new undercarriage was adopted. This was the Italian Magnaghi system from the Ilmavoimat's Fiat G.50 'Fiiu' fighter. Also inspired by the Fiat was a new, steel-tube wing centre section (to whichwould be attached outer panels consisting of roughly the outer two-thirds of the original VG.33's wooden wing - increasing span to 13 m).

The new centre section attached to a lengthened Tuulihaukka fuselage. A DB 601E (or DB 605A) engine was to be installed in an almost unchanged Bf 109 cowling. The longer fuselage left space for an optional MG 151/20 motor-kanone as well as cowl-mounted 12.7 mm LKk/42 VKT machine guns (Browning M2 copies).

The new outer wing panels allowed fixed armament to be fitted inboard compared to the guns' original mounting points. This also meant more relative space between the spars allowing internally wing-mounted LKK/42 machine guns or MG 151/20. A light bomb rack could be fitted behind the retracted main wheels (since the D.33's central radiator had been replaced by twin Bf 109-style radiator baths outboard on either side of the centre section).

Ilvamoimat inspectors were very impressed with the D.42d concept but found it a somewhat over-elaborate development. It seemed to these officials that a simpler solution could be found by combining the features of the radial-engined D.42w and Daimler-powered D.42d.


The D.43d Haukka III

The D.43d was effectively a DB 605A-powered development of VL's stillborn D.42w concept. The basic Tuulihaukka fuselage and wing remained largely unchanged but the forward fuselage was now made up of welded steel tubes. The lowered wing gave the 3 metre diameter VDM 9 propeller the ground clearance it required.

A minor difference in the D.43d airframe was an enlarged vertical tailplane of simplified shape. The radiator was also enlarged and moved aft. This was to help restore balance (aided by some rearrangement of internal equipment). With all these changes, the Ilmavoimat redubbed the aircraft Haukka (Hawk) to differentiate the D.43d from earlier D.33 types still in service.

Haukka armament was to consist of twin LKk/42 machine guns. Optionally, a motor-kanone could be fitted as could four rifle-calibre wing guns. In the event, most D.43d were delivered to tactical recce units and mounted only the twin cowl guns. Those Haukka that did reach fighter units tended to have a third, engine-mounted LKk/42 although a few did receive the rarer MG 151/20 cannon.

'Justiina' (bottom) is a typical tactical recce D.43d Haukka. Note that, although the Ilmavoimat has applied a new 'HA' type code, the numerical sequence carries on from the D.33 types.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #756 on: April 09, 2013, 10:45:04 AM »
 :-* Beautiful silhouettes! :-*

Offline arc3371

  • Takes no responsibility should anyone try to turn the drawings into plastic...but we will still hold him accountable for the madness that ensues!!!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #757 on: April 09, 2013, 10:25:36 PM »
:-* Beautiful silhouettes! :-*
Indeed and a comment about the Myrski you mentioned. Had the Finnd had access to modern foreign designs as the VG.33 the Myrski (which was a very poor design) would either not be started or dropped as soon as the weakness of the design was obvious
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 10:29:22 PM by arc3371 »

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #758 on: April 09, 2013, 11:56:39 PM »
"Cheers Jorel! You may have notice your influence on 'Pariisilainen' in Reply #750"
I did notice that...... :)

Offline JP Vieira

  • The Challenge Master!!!
    • What-If World
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #759 on: April 10, 2013, 02:18:58 AM »
Very Good. I always liked the Arsenal fighter

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #760 on: April 10, 2013, 12:51:26 PM »
VL Arsenals in Foreign Markings

At least three VL-built Arsenal fighters flew in foreign markings.

Due to persistant engine troubles, several D.33v Tuulihaukka had to abandoned in Karelia during the retreat of 1944. Two of these aircraft were repaired by VVS ground crews and issued to the 20 IAP where they flew alongside the unit's Yak-9s west of Murmansk. Intended for use as hacks, the two captured Tuulihaukka actually saw combat.

Both VVS D.33v were used to lead an attack on the Finnish airfield at Petsamo. The Soviets were counting on these fighters being mistaken for returning Ilmavoimat aircraft. That proved true but the following Yaks took heavy ground fire from Finnish and German anti-aircraft batteries.

Aircraft No.2 (top) had been daubbed with the slogan "For Soviet Karelia!".

One D.43d was sent to Rechlin for testing by the Luftwaffe. German interest was primarily in the Haukka's wooden construction. The fighter arrived at Rechlin in August 1944 and was stripped of its underwing 20mm cannon 'kanootti'. Limited testing was undertaken before Finland agreed to the Sept 1944 armistice with the Soviet Union. With no chance for a supply of spares, the Haukka  was stripped of its German equipment and scrapped in November 1944.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 03:50:52 AM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline lauhof52

  • Dutchie
  • The Decimator Guy!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #761 on: April 10, 2013, 01:25:17 PM »
Beautiful made, those VL arsenal's  8)

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • The True North, Strong and Free (AltCan)
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #762 on: April 10, 2013, 09:10:43 PM »
This recent bunch of Ilmavoimat aircraft has been great!

If you don't mind a minor nitpick, though? The slogan on the Russian one should have 'za', not 'dlya'.
"God save our Queen and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Alternate Canada - http://altcan.webs.com

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #763 on: April 10, 2013, 09:28:22 PM »
Wow, they look great....

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #764 on: April 11, 2013, 03:57:18 AM »
If you don't mind a minor nitpick, though? The slogan on the Russian one should have 'za', not 'dlya'.

Nitpick much appreciated Litvyak! I've corrected the image now. That's what I get for trusting Google Translate  :P

I decided to go back to Prompt for Russian translations but, weirdly, they gave me Для советской Карелии as well. But, put in 'For' by itelf and you get:  для, для того, чтобы, and, finally, за ...
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #765 on: April 11, 2013, 04:00:53 AM »
Over in the 'Counter Insurgency Aircraft' thread on Ideas & Inspiration, there was some discussion of the single-seat Super Tucano.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2875.msg43586#msg43586

Here's my quickie take on the 'A-29' (based on a handy FAB image of an A-29B on Wikipedia)
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #766 on: April 11, 2013, 04:05:04 AM »
Now blank off the rear completely.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #767 on: April 11, 2013, 04:38:18 AM »
Will do, Chief!  :D
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #768 on: April 11, 2013, 05:59:49 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #769 on: April 11, 2013, 07:08:02 AM »
somehow the blanked-off rear canopy doesn't look right to me - all too tall .....

now if you made it a single cockpit with a new much lower canopy & sent it pylon racing ;)  >:D

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • Reinvented Austria and the Stuka....Now what?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #770 on: April 11, 2013, 12:56:13 PM »
I have to agree with raafif here; the blanked off rear canopy just isn't working on the Tucano. It works on some planes, just not in this case.

I think blanking off the rear section of the canopy shouldn't really be required and would actually limit the flexibility of the airframe a bit.

Keeping a common canopy would reduce changes between trainer and combat capable variants. It would also make it easier to switch an airframe from one to the other role, presuming the combat mission specific gear could be packed into a modular package fitted to the rear cockpit that could be easily removed and leave the basic rear cockpit structures intact enough that it could be fitted to a trainer standard with relative ease and speed if need be.

Keeping a common canopy should also retain the same pilot visibility between variants so it could save the pilot the trouble of having to get used to any differences between the variants.

Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #771 on: April 11, 2013, 01:08:01 PM »
Palletize the mission specific gear so that it can be slid into the rear cockpit using the ejection seat tracks.  That way you keep maximum commonality and adaptability.  For certain B-2 missions, there's a similarly palletized kit that uses the third seat ejection seat rails.

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
  • twin-boom & asymmetric fan
    • my models
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #772 on: April 11, 2013, 11:32:57 PM »
I love the new silhouette of the one with coloured rear canopy. I don't care about the pilot or his military work. Thanks to have enriched the family, even if no user would buy this one... ;)

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #773 on: April 13, 2013, 04:34:26 AM »
Thanks folks. Agreed on the rear decking ... I too prefer the glazed rear panel (although there wouldn't be much of a rear view, I don't think).

The 'solid' panel is more in line with other tandem twin converted to single-seaters like the MB-326K. For either canopy, I'm imagining the original Super Tucano cockpit opening remaining unchanged. The shape of the fairing behind the original canopy would have to be changed however.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #774 on: April 15, 2013, 11:52:15 AM »
I've been musing on Messerschmitt/Mustang hybrids. No back-story or rationale (hence the lack of colour schemes) ... just wondering what they'd be like.

My first thought was a testbed based on captured P-51 components. Top, a Bf-109G rebuilt with a  P-51B radiator bath to see if it provided any performance benefits over the Messerschmitt's usual twin wing radiators. Bottom, the same airframe after being stretched to accommodate the  Mustang's laminar-flow wing.

I'd imagine that the first limitation encountered would be inadequate ground clearance for the DB605's propeller. And, of course, the Mustang wing only maintained laminar-flow when in ideal condition. So, more work was required at Messerschmitt AG to make this combo worth production.

I've called the production Messerschmitt/Mustang hybrid an Me-209 (III) to camouflage the development of yet another '109 evolution from the Luftwaffe's Technische Amt. This third  incarnation of the Me-209 employed the Me-410's larger DB603A engine. The Me-209 is employed as a pure fighter intended to combat enemy escorts to free Bf-109s and Fw-190s to attack the unattended bomber streams.

Compared with the base Bf-109G, the forward fuselage is longer which allows 20mm cannon cowl guns in place of machineguns. The larger cowl guns were, in part, possible because of the raised cockpit position (using an Me-262 canopy). Wing armament is restricted to one gun per side - due to longer undercarriage legs than the P-51. These undercarriage legs are based on Fw-190 components.

The initial production Me-209A-1 made use of DB603A engines surplus from diminished Me-410 production. Since these engines lack motor-kanone, armament is restricted to four 20mm guns. Later variants added an MG151, MK 103, or MK 108 motor-kanon.

BTW, the Bf-109G started off as a great blank by Simon Schatz. The Me-262 canopy I borrowed from Teodor Liviu Morosanu's Avia S.92.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 11:56:28 AM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."