Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 458248 times)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #550 on: October 12, 2012, 11:55:55 AM »
I had never noticed the D.XXI was so close to a Curtiss P-40. Thanks for having opened my eyes! :)

Offline lauhof52

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #551 on: October 12, 2012, 01:40:59 PM »
That fokker 'ontwerp 151' D.XXII is the Dutch P-40! Very nice concept. :)

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #552 on: October 12, 2012, 03:43:25 PM »
It's very interesting how an inline engine can change the whole look of things.

I'll agree that the radial engined Fokker D.XXII looks like a Curtiss product, but more like a P-36 than a P-40 to my eyes.

The inline version has "Hawker" written all over it, it looks like it belongs in the Hurricane lineage somewhere.
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Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #553 on: October 13, 2012, 04:39:33 AM »
Thanks folks. It is a nice concept. But I can't take credit ... de Fokker ingenieurs deden goed werk!   ;)

Maybe its the line of the forward upper fuselage but the ontwerp 150 reminds me a little of an under-nourished Hellcat.

For anyone brave enough to tackle a plastic version, I based the ontwerp 151's nose on the Fairey Barracuda's cowling. However, drawings show a variation on the 151 theme with a belly radiator.

The fuselage and horizontal tail of either ontwerp 150 or 151 could be modded from the D.XXI. The main wheels are canted so a Bloch MB-150 undercarriage might work.

The wings are the real puzzle. Structurally they would be similar to the D.XXI but with more dihedral and a much deeper leading edge (ahead of the front spar). A cut and splice of the D.XXI might work but, I'd imagine, getting the wheel wells in would be a real challenge.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #554 on: October 14, 2012, 02:21:45 AM »
I see the malnoursished Hellcat, but I think it's the overall shape (especially the canopy) that creates the image in my mind...

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #555 on: October 14, 2012, 10:08:55 AM »
More Fokker might-have-beens ...

Bottom is the previously-mentioned variation on the Merlin-engined Ontwerp 151 with the belly radiator bath. I seem to remember a DB 600H alternative engine for the D.XXII as well but have no references.

Equally difficult to find references on is the Fokker D.XXIV, a D.XXI derivative with the Mercury replaced by a sleeve-valve Bristol Perseus and the spatted main gear eclipsed by a retractable undercarriage. No ontwerp number was recorded when this project was announced on 19 June 1939. The D.XXIV designation was referred to three days later.

In the available sideview sketch, the D.XXIV undercarriage looks similar to FR-167 (the experimental Finnish D.XXI installation) but not identical. I used a Macchi C.200 gear as my starting point.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #556 on: October 14, 2012, 01:58:39 PM »
After the Fokker P-40, we have the Fokker Hurricane, thanks!

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #557 on: October 16, 2012, 10:18:12 AM »
Thanks Tophe. Here's the last of the Fokker projects ... promise  ;)

The Fokker Ontwerp 126 was a 1935 study for a light reconnaissance bomber la the contemporary Fairey Battle. I assume that the Ontwerp 126 was intended as a replacement for the Fokker C.X biplane.

Like the Battle, the Ontwerp 126 had a liquid-cooled engine (exhaust ports suggesting an HS-12Y rather than the C.X's Kestrel). The Ontwerp 126 also differed from the Battle in having a spatted main gear and a fuselage bomb bay (rather like the Kawasaki Ki-32 'Mary' or Mitsubishi Ki-30 'Ann').

Unlike any of the designs mentions, the Ontwerp 126 was to have two belly gun positions (one firing to the rear, another firing straight down). Planned offensive load seems to have been four 100 kg bombs.

Defensive armament would be the LVA's standard FN Colt-Browning 7,9mm No.3 machine guns but the exact number is unclear. One (or two) MGs were synchronized to fire through the propeller arc. Another MG on a flexible mount fired from the observer's dorsal position. Either that dorsal MG or the ventral MG could also be re-positioned to the vertical ventral position.

For the fin markings, I've re-dubbed the Ontwerp 126 as the Fokker 'C.XII', AFAIK, that was a designation never applied by the LVA.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 10:19:45 AM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #558 on: October 16, 2012, 10:40:18 AM »
Ooo, I like a lot.  It's like a Dutch PZL.23 Karas.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline lauhof52

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #559 on: October 16, 2012, 03:47:03 PM »
Smashing Fokker's ;D

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #560 on: October 16, 2012, 05:59:37 PM »
Those look so natural.  Great work.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #561 on: October 17, 2012, 11:10:43 AM »
Thanks folks :D

Ooo, I like a lot.  It's like a Dutch PZL.23 Karas.

Yep, there's one that did have belly protection! Makes me wonder what a Karas with liquid-cooled engine would've looked like.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #562 on: October 17, 2012, 11:12:12 AM »
The SB3U-2 Volley was a replacement for Vought's SB2U Vindicator and a stablemate for the Douglas SBD. Powered by the same Wright Cyclone as the Dauntless, the Volley retained much of the structure of Vought's advanced XF4U-1 Corsair fighter.

The SB3U-2 performed well and had commonality with the F4U. However, the US Navy wanted Vought to concentrate on Corsairs and Kingfishers. Although appreciated for its firepower (4 x .50" wing guns), the Volley was phased out in favour of the Dauntless. The SB3U-2 last saw action with Marine units based on Midway Island.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #563 on: October 17, 2012, 11:15:57 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #564 on: October 20, 2012, 07:17:50 PM »
The mid-engined Corsair, Volley and Ontwerp 126 are brilliant!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #565 on: October 21, 2012, 12:33:37 PM »
I like the SB3U completing the Vought family, like a missing link... :)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #566 on: October 22, 2012, 09:54:43 AM »
Thanks folks. I had a French Volley and Ki.45 (as wartime A-18 Shrike II) in the works but my CPU has given up the ghost. A new power supply proved an insufficient offering (I'm guessing the motherboard fried).  :icon_crap:

Hi ho. Anyhoo, being (temporarily?) PhotoShopless, it may be a while before I have more images to post  :(
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Acree

  • That will teach you to frustrate the powers that be...won't it comrade?
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #567 on: October 22, 2012, 10:06:06 AM »
Sorry to hear THAT!  But I can relate - I once lost over 1000 drawing files.  Save, schmave!

Offline finsrin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #568 on: October 22, 2012, 11:07:20 AM »
I'm keen on buried mid-engines for fighters. But are they enough?

This is a gem of a profile.  Like late 1945 going into Luft 46......   :)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 12:21:15 PM by finsrin »

Offline lauhof52

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #569 on: October 23, 2012, 03:10:48 PM »
The Vought-volley is superb! Sorry to hear about your crash :(.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #570 on: October 25, 2012, 05:11:59 AM »
Thanks for the sympathy votes guys  ;)  Oh well, if nothing else, I'm becoming intimately familiar with the innards of my CPU ...

Sorry to hear THAT!  But I can relate - I once lost over 1000 drawing files.  Save, schmave!

Camarade!  That must've sucked big time. My stuff is all on a separate hard drive so, once I've cobbled together another CPU, I should be able to retrieve it.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #571 on: November 02, 2012, 11:48:28 AM »
I've been playing with a borrowed laptop. It's not very happy with Photoshop but here's my first attempt ...

This was inspired (appropriately enough) by the Hawker Sea Hawk Ideas and Inspiration section. It occurred to me that since the Sea Hawk itself evolved from a propeller-driven fighter, there was no real reason that it couldn't be turned back into a 'proper' airplane.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:55:18 AM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #572 on: November 02, 2012, 12:25:07 PM »
Great first try... :-*

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #573 on: November 02, 2012, 12:41:59 PM »
Sweet!!! :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline lauhof52

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #574 on: November 02, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »
Nice one! 8)