Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 2111587 times)

Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3375 on: May 22, 2025, 01:31:09 PM »
If you're bored... might you possibly feel like making such a ute based on a Rover P6? ...

Not bored ... but always up for a challenge  :D 

I based the ute on a 4-door P6 3000 image that I found on line (I just liked the colour). However, I wonder if the 2-litre mightn't be a more common choice for this 'Rovchero'?

BTW: Have you ever seen the RW Rover P6 BS mid-engined test mule?
-- https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/rover-p6-bs/

I love it - that's the colour my dad's 2000TC was!

I hadn't seen that test mule, but I love it - I think that white P9 did enter production at Lumby... ;) Thanks!
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3376 on: May 23, 2025, 05:50:41 AM »
Glad that you liked that quickie Rover ute  :smiley:

Out of curiosity, what other marques were built (or assembled) in the Dominion of British Columbia?
15 Aug 2025: "We are now half-stupid! Soon we shall be completely stupid!"

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3377 on: May 23, 2025, 10:06:49 AM »
In high school, a friend had a Ford Anglia... but I could never get used to that back-sloping roofline  ???

Solution? Well, if the roof offends, have it off. So, the predictable Anglia ute conversion but along with an estate mod (not sure if there was a RW Anglia wagon - if so, we certainly never saw them here in BC).
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3378 on: May 23, 2025, 02:12:07 PM »
Glad that you liked that quickie Rover ute  :smiley:

I do! It immediately made me picture it in green with steel wheels as a BC Rail track inspection car, which in turn made me envision the wagon version in BC Tel colours, gold over white with a blue stripe... (as I imagine Crown corporations all used BC-made vehicles as much as possible...

Quote
Out of curiosity, what other marques were built (or assembled) in the Dominion of British Columbia?

So a summary form... after the war Hoffar was stuck with its massive plant at Lumby, so at first they got a licence from Whitcomb Locomotive to build the 65-DE-19 switcher... but the market for such is rather limited, so after Armstrong Siddeley bought HAE in 1948, they started building the Armstrong Siddeley 18 in BC from 1950. They the pickup version of the Whitley 18 was built until 1961, but the saloon was discontinued in 1959, after a licence was secured from Alvis to produce the TD21 for North American markets. TD21 variants were offered until 1964, when they were replaced by the TE21. These were marketed in BC and Canada (a small number did reach the US) under their original names - Armstrong Siddeley Whitley, Alvis TD21, Alvis TE21. In 1969, Bristol Siddeley sold the Lumby plant to British Leyland, who expanded the plant (engine factory at Dure Meadow, stamping and assembly facilities southwest of the town of Lumby - 100 acre complex with 3 miles of rail trackage inside, plus the Okanagan Glass Works at Lavington supplying glass for them, Vancouver Locomotive Works in Surrey, Supermarine, etc) and began producing the Rover P6 (in saloon, ute, and wagon versions) for the North American market there. In 1976, the P6 production was replaced by the SD1, and in 1982 a version of the Austin Ambassador was introduced as the <Rover? Leyland? Hoffar? Dogwood>. Hoffar Auto (and after 1969, BC Leyland) made wheel assemblies for DHBC starting with the DHBC-5 Swan and continuing through the DHBC-7 Trident and DHBC-9 Kehloke, and also for Supermarine for the Shukopoots and the Spitfire II. They also made the various Land Rover types for the BCDF and civilian markets. BC Rover-Leyland has been an independent company since... dunno when.

There's a bunch more to figure out with the details of that, this is just what I have based on little tidbits dropped here and there (e.g. the wiki page for BC Rail's Lumby Line)... like, need to work out the more complete ranges, domestic developments, etc.

Others - Ford BC had a plant in Burnaby that made TT and AA trucks before the war... during the war made aero engines; I don't know what they were doing post-war, but the plant was closed/repurposed by the mid 80s. But currently the only other vehicle manufacturers in BC are Bedford of BC (GM subsidiary, plant located in the Pontypridd suburb of Blaenau [west side of the river, north of the railway]; they build a lot for the BCDF), and Hayes - both build HGWs, Bedford also does busses.

BC-built cars were cheaper after 1960 due to tariffs introduced on imported cars, so foreign cars were a luxury... in 1962 British, Canadian, and Australian manufacturers were made exempt. By the end of the 1960s the Americans had stopped complaining about this, with GM and Ford deciding instead to send Holden and Australian Ford products into BC [the Guichon Auto Terminal in Port Guichon, Ladner was opened in 1970 to handle cars coming from Australia], while Chrysler began manufacturing right-hand drive versions of some cars in Canada (much sought after nowadays by collectors are RHD versions of the Dodge Charger and Challenger). And then since the 80s since a deal between BC and Japan was made, Japanese cars have grown in popularity too (a pleasant byproduct for fans of Japanese cars in Canada and the US is that BC by and large gets J-spec production, so not uncommon that Silvias and Skylines sold in BC were actually to US and Canadian buyers...)

... ... ... all this has made me think, I have a particular fondness for AMC (you all already know I'm weird), so maybe I'll brain out something to link Rover-Leyland and AMC... maybe no Renault connection for AMC, but Rover instead, and the resulting union is fruitful, and now... ooooh. I can feel some fun times coming up with this thought.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3379 on: May 23, 2025, 10:55:48 PM »
In high school, a friend had a Ford Anglia... but I could never get used to that back-sloping roofline  ???

Solution? Well, if the roof offends, have it off. So, the predictable Anglia ute conversion but along with an estate mod (not sure if there was a RW Anglia wagon - if so, we certainly never saw them here in BC).

The wagon looks like a flat faced Volkswagen 411/412 wagon... which wasn't a great car.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3380 on: May 24, 2025, 04:16:17 AM »
The wagon looks like a flat faced Volkswagen 411/412 wagon... which wasn't a great car.

No that wasn't much of a car. The Type 4 was not a VW model that we saw much in these parts. [1] But you're right Frank. If the pillar behind the back seat was sloped, it'd be a dead ringer.

I've never been clear over what happened to VW between the Beetle and the Rabbit. [2] My grandparents went from a Type 1 to a Type 3 wagon and it just wasn't the same experience. As you'd expect, the Beetle was reliable and all but indestructible. The Type 3 was just a variation on the theme but somehow lost that Type 1 reliability. Overheating seemed to be the biggest problem but there were others ...

___________________________________

[1] IIUC, Pininfarina did the original design which was later revised by Brooks Stevens. Can say that I much care for either variation.

[2] IMHO, VW save itself bringing in Giorgetto Giugiaro for the Golf/Rabbit.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3381 on: May 24, 2025, 04:23:17 AM »
I do! It immediately made me picture it in green with steel wheels as a BC Rail track inspection car, which in turn made me envision the wagon version in BC Tel colours, gold over white with a blue stripe... (as I imagine Crown corporations all used BC-made vehicles as much as possible...

The mention of BC Tel livery makes me think of a ute fitted with one of those 'work caps' (with opening tool and supply chests on the sides instead of windows) and roof racks for lineman's poles, ladders, etc.

Thanks for the details on other BC margues. The Alvis TE21 was a good choice for continuing on that posh British car feel of the AS 18 Hurricane. It occurs to me that just as your Lumby plant was taken over by British Leyland, Chrysler was starting to wind up Humber. I had a soft spot for the Humber Hawk when I was a kid ... but probably the design was obsolete by 1968 anyway. Ah well ...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2025, 04:51:02 AM by apophenia »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3382 on: May 25, 2025, 03:33:01 AM »
The Jaguar F-Type

After the Jan 1968 BLMC merger, Jaguar Cars briefly considered a Rover 3500 V8-powered 'XKE-8' for the North American market. However, as a Specialist Division, Jaguar was allowed to continue development of its preferred SOHC V12 (based on the DOHC racing engine). Alas, within two years of the V12 XKE's introduction, the OPEC oil crisis had begun to bite in North America.

While the Rover 3500 was briefly considered again, Jaguar chose to pursue its own engine design. The result was another 3.5 litre V8 but, this time, based upon Jag's V12 technology and components. The new engine produced a more modest 195 hp (although this would be reduced further as more stringent US emission controls were applied during the 1970s).

The initial mount for the Jaguar 3.5 L V8 was the Jaguar F-Type (or XKF for the North American export market). Aft of the firewall, the F-Type was identical to the E-Type Series 3. However, the front end of the F-Type was shortened (compared with the E-Types) for its V8 powerplant.
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Offline perttime

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3383 on: May 25, 2025, 11:51:25 PM »

Solution? Well, if the roof offends, have it off. So, the predictable Anglia ute conversion but along with an estate mod (not sure if there was a RW Anglia wagon - if so, we certainly never saw them here in BC).
Looks like 1959–1968 Anglia and 1962–1967 Anglia Super were available as:
2-door saloon
3-door estate car
2-door panel van

... Too tired to look for photos now...

Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3384 on: May 26, 2025, 05:56:12 AM »
If you had said, "how about shortening the hood of a Jag E-type?", I would have shouted "blasphemy" and I would be certain I would not like the look.  HOWEVER, I really do like the look of your F-type.  It's got a Porsche 911 overall vibe, but still clearly Jaguar.  Probably less vicious handling than the Porsche, too.  Nice job!

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3385 on: May 26, 2025, 06:41:12 AM »
Looks like 1959–1968 Anglia and 1962–1967 Anglia Super were available as:
2-door saloon
3-door estate car
2-door panel van ...

Thanks for that! I love panel vans (and it would've been a huge visual improvement over the saloon).  :smiley:

So, Anglia estates were a thing too (UK market, I'm assuming). No surprise, I suppose, that whif ideas get stolen by reality's time machine! [1]
________________________________

[1] The same phenomenon derailed my VW Fox ute conversion. It turned out that Volkswagen do Brasil had done exactly that (as their VW Saveiro). This pickup version just never reached o Norte (because VW had already gone to the trouble of producing a pickup version of the Rabbit (Golf) for the North American market.) Harrumph!
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3386 on: May 26, 2025, 06:46:08 AM »
If you had said, "how about shortening the hood of a Jag E-type?", I would have shouted "blasphemy" and I would be certain I would not like the look.  HOWEVER, I really do like the look of your F-type.  It's got a Porsche 911 overall vibe, but still clearly Jaguar.  Probably less vicious handling than the Porsche, too.  Nice job!

Cheers ... and sometimes "blasphemy" can be fun  ;D  Your question on handling is an interesting one. I've read that the Jag IRS could make handling a bit twitchy at higher speeds. Shortening the wheelbase may have had a further effect (but ... improving or worsening?).

Interesting too that you got a Porsche 911 vibe. In part, I was thinking of this F-Type as Jaguar's 914 moment. But, in the main, it was just an excuse to cut the Jag V12 in half   ;)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3387 on: May 27, 2025, 08:59:46 AM »
Another short-hooded item. No real backstory this time. (Maybe Datsun/Nissan just goes for V6s earlier?)
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3388 on: May 27, 2025, 11:10:18 AM »
Another short-hooded item. No real backstory this time. (Maybe Datsun/Nissan just goes for V6s earlier?)

Nothing can ruin the beauty of an old Fairlady! This looks great.
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Offline perttime

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3389 on: May 27, 2025, 12:39:22 PM »
Long nosed cars usually look too long nosed to me, so the shortened Jaguar and Datsun look great to me.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3390 on: May 28, 2025, 10:48:23 AM »
Long nosed cars usually look too long nosed to me, so the shortened Jaguar and Datsun look great to me.

Cheers for that. I guess that styling aesthetic is partly related to era. Going way back, straight-8s said 'power' and needed long hoods/bonnets. That look hung over into the straight-6s of the Jag and 240Z. But, yeah, in these days of turbocharged-everything and BEVs, the long nose has become an anachronism.

Nothing can ruin the beauty of an old Fairlady! ...

We can but try!  ;D

BTW: Your humble pixel-pusher assumes no responsibility for those Slotted Gem mags (that infraction came with the original photo).
« Last Edit: May 28, 2025, 10:50:03 AM by apophenia »
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3391 on: May 28, 2025, 12:48:17 PM »
Nothing can ruin the beauty of an old Fairlady! ...

We can but try!  ;D

BTW: Your humble pixel-pusher assumes no responsibility for those Slotted Gem mags (that infraction came with the original photo).

Now with this, you're somehow managing to get there. Not sure the convertible look suits the Z. I mean, between those and the mags, the mags look fine...  :P
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Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3392 on: May 29, 2025, 12:44:00 AM »
Maybe it's just the blue color, or maybe it's the abundant bustle, but that convertible 280 says "Triumph" to me (at least at first glance). 

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3393 on: May 29, 2025, 03:44:01 AM »
Now with this, you're somehow managing to get there. Not sure the convertible look suits the Z...

Success!

I just came across a photo of a RW 240Z convertible conversion. [1] Even if you accept the concept, some of the lines just don't work. The worst offender, to my eyes, is in the door trim upsweep. On the hatch back, that line (and its chrome trim) flows beautifully into the quarter light. On the conversion, this subtle detail becomes a pointless line to nowhere.
_______________________________________________________

[1] When you see images online of 'Z-car convertible conversions, they have invariably been 'upgraded' with some gargantuan American V8. There, the details of the soft-top conversion, tend to get lost in an involuntary flehmen response to overly fat tires, expansive wheel-well flares, and bulging hood scoops  :P
_______________________________________________________
15 Aug 2025: "We are now half-stupid! Soon we shall be completely stupid!"

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3394 on: May 29, 2025, 04:57:12 AM »
Maybe it's just the blue color, or maybe it's the abundant bustle, but that convertible 280 says "Triumph" to me (at least at first glance).

Yeah, there's a bit of late-model Spitfire roadster in the hind quarters. The TR-6 had a bit more sculpting in its bum-end lines as compared with the rather featureless rear slope of those late Spits) (and this topless 240Z).
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3395 on: May 29, 2025, 10:01:43 AM »
Now with this, you're somehow managing to get there. Not sure the convertible look suits the Z...

Success!

I just came across a photo of a RW 240Z convertible conversion. [1] Even if you accept the concept, some of the lines just don't work. The worst offender, to my eyes, is in the door trim upsweep. On the hatch back, that line (and its chrome trim) flows beautifully into the quarter light. On the conversion, this subtle detail becomes a pointless line to nowhere.
_______________________________________________________

[1] When you see images online of 'Z-car convertible conversions, they have invariably been 'upgraded' with some gargantuan American V8. There, the details of the soft-top conversion, tend to get lost in an involuntary flehmen response to overly fat tires, expansive wheel-well flares, and bulging hood scoops  :P
_______________________________________________________

... no me gusta
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3396 on: May 31, 2025, 05:51:41 AM »
¿Qué tal este?

This is a notion for Litvak's Alt BC concept. It involves a midlife tart-up for a re-engined Triumph TR7. As explained over on 'Litvak Profiles', inner stampings are pretty much unchanged. The outer shell has lost its signature 'swoop' in favour of a horizontal cheatline panel stiffener. The US-style 5 mph bumpers have also been toned down and the upper sheet metal now terminates in colour-match plastic impact-absorber panels.

Note that I've just done the drop-top. 'Sports car' and 'coupé' are different things to me. But, should there be a revised TR7 coupé, it might have more of an MGB GT roof line ...
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Offline raafif

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3397 on: May 31, 2025, 07:46:34 AM »
A TR-7 Coupe should look good if making the roofline MGB style  :smiley:  Often thought the Mazda MX-5 needed it too.  Pop-up headlights are well known for failing so maybe  something different there ?

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3398 on: June 02, 2025, 07:27:33 AM »
Prompted by Litvak's Alt BC concept, here are my notions of improvement for two mid-engined cars.

First is the Rover P6BS (Litvak's Alvis VA). I have revised both front and hind quarters. The rear appears to be been 'fastbacked' with much later Rover SD1 panels. But that is an illusion. The roof line has been stretched out to the tail ... but this is not a hatchback. Instead, between those C pillars is 'hollow' to accommodate the raised SU carburettors. The nose shape I more or less pinched from a Porsche 928.

Second is Harris Mann's 1969 Austin Zanda concept car. I love this clean design but, to my eyes, the bum end is both overly shortened and a bit funky. I've stretched out the rear a bit and given it a more substantial bumper. The rear roof line I've changed completely. As with the P6BS, I have hollowed-out between swept-back C pillars for what I hope are sleeker lines.

Thoughts, suggestions, and brickbats welcome.
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3399 on: June 02, 2025, 09:45:44 AM »
Prompted by Litvak's Alt BC concept, here are my notions of improvement for two mid-engined cars.

First is the Rover P6BS (Litvak's Alvis VA). I have revised both front and hind quarters. The rear appears to be been 'fastbacked' with much later Rover SD1 panels. But that is an illusion. The roof line has been stretched out to the tail ... but this is not a hatchback. Instead, between those C pillars is 'hollow' to accommodate the raised SU carburettors. The nose shape I more or less pinched from a Porsche 928.

Second is Harris Mann's 1969 Austin Zanda concept car. I love this clean design but, to my eyes, the bum end is both overly shortened and a bit funky. I've stretched out the rear a bit and given it a more substantial bumper. The rear roof line I've changed completely. As with the P6BS, I have hollowed-out between swept-back C pillars for what I hope are sleeker lines.

Thoughts, suggestions, and brickbats welcome.

I like the look of your P6BS update! In my notes I've got the Rover P9 design as the successor to the VA, but for the VC of 1979 I just have a note "VB with styling and other tweaks", so if you don't mind I'll nick this for the VC!

The Zanda is an interesting design, but I agree that the rear end... well, to put it mildly, I think it kills it (in the traditional sense of "kill", not the Gen Z sense!). Your revision to it is transformational, it looks fantastic... the car almost doesn't even resemble itself.
"God save our King and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Dominion of BC - https://dominionofbc.miraheze.org/wiki/British_Columbia

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."