Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 459443 times)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #400 on: June 13, 2012, 07:17:38 AM »
Thanks EH, you're a man after my own heart -- anyone who can see the beauty in the Gordon is a friend of mine!  ;D

I was playing with the Breda Ba.88 Lince is see if anything could be salvaged. Here's the Ba.88N single-seat night raider.
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Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #401 on: June 13, 2012, 09:24:15 AM »
Nice job on the Ba 88N!  I love the quirky 30s and 40s stuff!

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #402 on: June 13, 2012, 09:35:12 AM »
Thanks Acree. I'm keen on that quirky '30/'40s stuff too  ;)

This next one was prompted by looking at a 'parts shot' of the MPM kit. That got me wondering what you would end up with if the Ba.88's fuselage was used upsidedown. As it turns out, still rather dumpy  :P
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #403 on: June 13, 2012, 10:17:15 AM »
The Italians are weird.

They make absolutely gorgeous cars and the people generally aren't hard to look at, but their trains and airplanes are, with a few exceptions, pretty awful looking. :P
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #404 on: June 13, 2012, 10:22:12 AM »
The Italians are weird.

They make absolutely gorgeous cars and the people generally aren't hard to look at, but their trains and airplanes are, with a few exceptions, pretty awful looking. :P

Add ships to the gorgeous side.  They had some of the most elegant capital ships of the early 20th century hands down!
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #405 on: June 13, 2012, 12:07:15 PM »
Wow! :-*
(this upside-down one is going well with the Re-2005 and G-55 and Mc-202 Italian beauties according to me)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #406 on: June 13, 2012, 12:12:06 PM »
My own thinking is that Italian airframes with German engines produced some elegant aircraft: MC-202/205/206/207, G.50V (well, an elegant adaptation), G.55, G.56, and Re2001, 2005, and 2006.  For that matter, the proposed G.54 is a most attractive aircraft.

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #407 on: June 13, 2012, 08:16:21 PM »
Some of their radial engined offerings had style too. The IMAM Ro.43 & 44, Cant Z.1018 and the Savoia-Marchetti SM.84 come to mind. I'd also echo that the Macchi/Fiat/Reggiane fighters are certainly lookers. We won't mention the Stipa!  ;)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who occasionally inverts the fuselage to see what it would look like!  :)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #408 on: June 13, 2012, 11:24:40 PM »
I'm glad I'm not the only one who occasionally inverts the fuselage to see what it would look like!  :)
Don't forget our Brian da Basher that built a "Latecoère" from an inverted Heinkel 219... He nicely gave it to me, and I am proud of it.
Apophenia is making this great tradition live again...

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #409 on: June 14, 2012, 02:23:28 AM »
I have a plan to do a Ba88 with either BMW801s or DB605s
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #410 on: June 14, 2012, 08:33:50 AM »
... and the people generally aren't hard to look at ...

That's because all the homely Italians have been detailed to queue-jump at the Poste restante  ;)

I have a plan to do a Ba88 with either BMW801s or DB605s

DB605 seems the most realistic (from an availability pov). I wonder, do any of the Do-217 kits come with both radial and inline cowlings? I know that's a DB603 but that firewall gives you a starting point for going from radial to inline.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #411 on: June 14, 2012, 06:36:27 PM »
Lovely!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #412 on: June 14, 2012, 06:57:27 PM »
The increased length with the DB engine makes the 88 far less tubby looking!  :)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #413 on: June 18, 2012, 11:51:26 AM »
Thanks guys! Inspired by upnorth's Stealing the Stuka
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1501.msg19988#msg19988

Proyecto NAAA (Nuevo Avión Agrícola de Argentina) evolved the Ju-87 design into a large agricultural aircraft. Intended to be built by the civilian side of FMA, Industrias Aeronáuticas y Mecánicas del Estado, neither variation on the P.1 Tucumán was of interest to authorities.

Somewhat more ambitious was the feederliner Proyecto NALA (Nuevo Avión Ligero Argentino). At an early stage both liquid-cooled and air-cooled engines were proposed. The Hispano-powered P.2 Chubut was thought most promising by the former Junkers designers but the P.2A Chaco had the advantage of engine commonality with FMA's AeMB.2.

Lacking encouragement, Proyecto NALA evolved into a lighter 2-seat design with refined wing structure but that is another story ...
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline upnorth

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #414 on: June 18, 2012, 01:08:46 PM »
Tremendous stuff!

It might be just me, but the P.2A Chaco has a bit of a Northrop Alpha look to it.
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Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #415 on: June 18, 2012, 01:38:04 PM »
Very cool!  I love taking the familiar (and not-so-familiar) and making variations and extrapolations from them.  Great job.  I especially like the P.2A.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #416 on: June 20, 2012, 07:31:41 AM »
Thanks guys. Northrop's Alpha was definitely an influence (I was trying to avoid anything that looked like the Junkers Ju-60 and Ju-160.

Now, riding on Acree's coat tails ...  ;)
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1494.msg20357#msg20357

Visitors to Farallon are able to view a fully-restored Capstan Wedell 44P Wasp fighter at the Farallonian Museum of Technology. The Wasp is resplendant in the markings of the Farallonian Air Force's 3rd Fighter Squadron circa 1942.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 11:46:46 AM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #417 on: June 20, 2012, 07:53:32 AM »
WOW!!! I am both humbled and honored.  AWESOME job Apophenia!  You took a drawing which I thought was "pretty good" and turned it into something truly AMAZING.  Thanks!

Chuck

Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #418 on: June 20, 2012, 08:10:03 AM »
Apophenia never ceases to amaze! :)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #419 on: June 21, 2012, 11:19:20 AM »
Ah shucks ... thanks folks  :))

For those who have ever wondered at the Capstan Wasp's bumpy cowling, a glance at the first demonstrator prototype is revealing. With its larger-diameter, smoother cowling, visibility from the cockpit of the first Wedell-Williams Model 44P demonstrator was negligible. A scanty view between rocker-covers on the service Wasp fighter was better than no view at all!
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Acree

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #420 on: June 21, 2012, 01:14:37 PM »
AND, check out that snazzy FAF uniform worn by Lance Margon (who looks amazingly like Col. Roscoe Turner in this photo  :D).

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #421 on: June 22, 2012, 06:11:39 AM »
AND, check out that snazzy FAF uniform worn by Lance Margon (who looks amazingly like Col. Roscoe Turner in this photo  :D).

But Lance Margon didn't have a mustache and Roscoe Turner did have a mustache! (said in best 'Superman doesn't wear glasses' voice)  :))
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #422 on: June 22, 2012, 06:13:37 AM »
Back to Litvyak's AltBC concept ...

As part of the post-WWI 'Imperial Gift', British Columbia received a batch of Parnall-built Hamble Baby biplanes (in the N2000-N2039 range). In theory, the BC Air Force (RBCAF after 1922) operated the Hamble Baby on floats as a coastal defence fighter. In reality, both float version and Hamble Baby Converts on wheels only acted as fighter trainers.

With the establishment of British Columbia naval aviation in 1921, the RBCN's Fleet Air Arm required a proper float fighter. As the RBCAF also required a modern fighter to replace its WWI 'left-overs', government decided to pursue a single type to satisfy both service's requirements.

After testing both the Fairey Flycatcher and third prototype Parnall Plover, a licence was purchased for a locally-built Plover. Boeing BC would undertake production but this was delayed while BC's rival services bickered over their engine choices. In the end, the Navy selected the heavier Bristol Jupiter while the RBCAF preferred the more compact Armstrong-Siddeley Jaguar.

A note on markings:

G-BYAF shows typical mid-'20s RBCAF markings. Along with the pale BC roundel of the period, RBCAF aircraft had rudder stripes and civilian style registration codes on the rear fuselage and lower wing. Plovers were aluminium-doped with black anti-glare panels, struts, and landing gear.

G-BYNP is a Jupiter-engined RBCN Fleet Air Arm Plover. Naval Plovers lacked rudder stripes (although stripes were applied to aircraft with spinners). Note that individual airframe details were recorded beneath the fin 'RBCN' but FAA aircraft lacked RBCAF-style specification blocks on the fuselage.

The Plover Mk.IN (for 'Naval') could operate on wheels or floats. For recording purposes, (F) indicated aircraft mounted on the Hoffar wooden float gear.

BTW: these sideviews are based on art by Zygmunt Szeremeta of Choroszy Modelbud. http://www.modelbud.pl/en_US/p/A167-Parnall-Plover-silver-series/492
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 06:16:41 AM by apophenia »
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #423 on: June 22, 2012, 07:59:18 AM »
Superb! The float-equipped one looks particularly fetching.
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Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #424 on: June 22, 2012, 11:45:01 AM »
Thought you might like those  ;)

Now back to the design saga of  upnorth's Stealing the Stuka ...

While civilian aircraft designs based on the Ju-87 failed to gain favour with the IAME, attention returned to military derivatives, producing designs for the Fábrica Militar de Aviones.

The first was a straightforward torpedo-bomber type for the Comando de Aviación Naval, the FMA P.9 Tehuelche. This aircraft was to be powered by a 760 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ybr and had interchangable wheel or Edo float undercarriage. The FMA P.9 was rejected by Armada planner for lacking the third crew member deemed necessary for a torpedo bomber.

Sensing another stone-walling, the former Junkers designs sought out the co-operation of younger, more open-minded COAN officers and pilots. Designed with input and critique from service officers, the conceptual replacement for the conventional FMA P.9 Tehuelche was radical in the extreme.

The FMA P.12 Yamana had its 860 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ycr buried amidships with a propeller shaft running to the nose. To either side of the tube enclosing that shaft, sat the pilot and navigator. The new cockpit was lower than that of the Ju-87, allowing a semi-enclosed bomb-bay.

Behind its mid-mounted engine, the FMA P.12 Yamana would mount a SAMM power-operated turret with a defensive machinegun. The FMA P.12 Yamana was to have a retractable undercarriage but floats could be fitted as required. For the torpedo role, fore and aft fairings were removed to semi-enclose the weapon in flight.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 11:47:25 AM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."