Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 436606 times)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2175 on: May 13, 2019, 10:54:21 AM »
Oh, I like.  And with antenna upgrades, that aircraft could be useful to the end of airframe life, though I could see various upgrades being applied as seem suitable.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2176 on: May 15, 2019, 05:45:58 AM »
A quickie retouch of the twin-T58 Alizé proposal. So quick, in fact, that I just noticed I forgot to reinstall the belly search radar radome and put the 'NAVY' on the rear fuselage  :-[ 
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2177 on: May 16, 2019, 01:51:37 AM »
 :smiley:

Just say it was just out of the shop and still requiring work. ;)
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Offline Jonesthetank

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2178 on: May 16, 2019, 03:28:19 AM »
Apophenia, you beat me to it!

Looks fantastic.

Thanks for the translation in M.A.Ds ADF Orbat thread  :smiley:

Mark

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2179 on: May 17, 2019, 05:01:29 AM »
Just say it was just out of the shop and still requiring work. ;)

 :D  Cheers Mark. The twin-engined Alizé isn't much of a looker but I like the concept nonetheless.

On to something else ...

Commonwealth Aircraft CA-26 Super Wackett

The CAC CA-26 Super Wackett was actually a joint project between Commonwealth Aircraft and de Havilland Australia. This 1948 programme involved the wholesale re-manufacturing of retired CA-6 Wackett airframes to provide the RAAF with a more modern basic trainer. Within that re-manufacturing programme, CAC was responsible for airframe work while DHA provided (and late produce) adapted DHC-1 Chipmunk components - including engine mounts, cowlings, and canopies.

DHA also supplied Gipsy engines and propellers as well as rebuilding CA-6 Wackett undercarriage assemblies. CAC produced an entirely new, all-metal structure wing and refurbished existing CA-6 fuselage frames for the Super Wackett programme. Ultimately, an entirely new tailplane - insired by the license-built CA-17 Mustang fighter was also built for 'production' conversion CA-26s.

The new, metal wing was smaller than the original to give a livelier performance. Span was reduced to 34.5 feet (10.51 m) with area down to 170 square feet (15.79 m˛). It was originally intended to keep the wooden tailplane from the CA-6 - as on the prototype CA-26 - but, to reduce maintenance loads, it was later decided to provide a new empennage of metal construction. One result of all this reworking was a reduction in all-up weight of 200 lbs (100 kg). That was essential in allowing the CA-6's Warner Scarab radial engine to be replaced while retaining adequate take-off performance. [1]

The CA-26 Super Wackett would be powered by a 145 hp de Havilland Gipsy Major 1C inline. [2] Serving until the mid-'50s, the Super Wackett received the RAAF serial prefix of A33 [3] with aircraft numbers being inherited from their CA-6 'doner' airframe - so, A33-77 illustrated was re-manufactured from CA-6 c/n 311 (formerly A3-77 of 3 EFTS).
__________________

[1] There was no weight-savings in changing engines since the Gipsy Major 1C and Warner Scarab had the same dry weight.

[2] Ironically, this was a postwar version of the 130 hp DH Gipsy Major engines originally fitted to the CA-12 prototypes.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2180 on: May 18, 2019, 01:54:36 AM »
A little different from the real-world CA-26  ;):



Interestingly, in the real world, the first two prototypes (shown below) did have in-line Gipsy Major/Gipsy six engines but were found to be under-powered.  This is why they went to the 175hp Warner Scarab.

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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2181 on: May 18, 2019, 03:08:13 AM »
Few things are as eye-catching as that trainer yellow.

Well done, apophenia!

Brian da Basher

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2182 on: May 18, 2019, 03:47:46 AM »
Interestingly, in the real world, the first two prototypes (shown below) did have in-line Gipsy Major/Gipsy six engines but were found to be under-powered.  This is why they went to the 175hp Warner Scarab.

Yeah, re-engining was a good move. And that's what prompted my Super Wackett 'weight-reduction' programme. I love the look of the DH-powered CA-2 prototypes but they sound pretty gutless  :P

Now ... inspired by this:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1136.msg152333#msg152333

M.A.D had mentioned a Herc with An-32-style nacelles to allow larger-diameter propellers. Here, I've just plonked a Orion wing and nacelles onto a C-130H fuselage. Of course, that won't get M.A.D his larger props, so ... no apparent advantages (other than further reduction in FOD potential).

To get M.A.D's desired advantage, you'd need more span to clear larger-diameter props (or go multi-bladed as per C-130J). A question for the engineers is: are there any other benefits to a high-mounted version of the L-188/P-3 wing?
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2183 on: May 18, 2019, 03:50:59 AM »
 :smiley:

Now add in a flying boat hull... ;)
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2184 on: May 18, 2019, 03:59:41 AM »

To get M.A.D's desired advantage, you'd need more span to clear larger-diameter props (or go multi-bladed as per C-130J).


Or just move the engines further out along the wing, like how the A400 does it. The prop wash just about covers the whole wing ---

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2185 on: May 18, 2019, 04:02:44 AM »
First of all, that was the configuration on the proposed C-130 flying boat to keep the props out of the spray.

Also, how about dual TP400s mounted above the wing to restore the original ground clearance on the C-130? I know the TP400 testbed had it mounted normally, but that wasn't mean to land in rough airfields at all. You can take timed out C-130Hs that need a new wing box and just give them a new wing with twin TP400s as sort of a budget C-130J competitor.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2186 on: May 18, 2019, 04:25:06 AM »
Or just move the engines further out along the wing, like how the A400 does it. The prop wash just about covers the whole wing ---

That makes me think of the Dash 7. Prop-wash over the whole wing = instant STOL  :D

... how about dual TP400s mounted above the wing to restore the original ground clearance on the C-130? I know the TP400 testbed had it mounted normally, but that wasn't mean to land in rough airfields at all. You can take timed out C-130Hs that need a new wing box and just give them a new wing with twin TP400s as sort of a budget C-130J competitor.

I like your thinking Logan! Especially combining the conversion work with new wing boxes. Actually, I had that in my original scenario for A97-449 (which also lost its former C-130H-30 'stretch' barrel sections).

Looking at the TP400-D6, its gearbox and intake arrangement is quite similar to that of the T56. Not that difficult to image it reorganized for a lower thrust line/higher air intake  :smiley:
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Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2187 on: May 18, 2019, 04:37:59 AM »
The few A400's I saw at YYC were mostly Luftwaffe, and they sort of just arrive un-announced. So they got directed to an apron and then they have to wait for the ground crew to get organized, sometimes they were left there with their engines running for 40-50 minutes. One thing I noticed about the sound of the TP-400's when they are just idling --- they rattle ---  :o

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2188 on: May 18, 2019, 04:46:07 AM »
You could even make it an Airbus project. The A400M sales aren't quite doing as well as they'd like, they offer to purchase countries' old C-130s in order to better facilitate sales, then they re-wing and re-engine them to give Airbus an offering in between the C-295 and A400M to compete with the C-130J and KC-390. In fact, if you put refueling tanks on them, you can say the higher mounting was for greater ground clearance as well as reduced prop wash for refueling helicopters.

Just some ideas.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2189 on: May 18, 2019, 05:08:52 AM »
Real world proposal:

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2190 on: May 19, 2019, 06:49:21 AM »
Thanks folks.

Logan: Making this an Airbus project makes great sense - I'm imagining most sales being to A400M operators who also use the Hercules.

That said, I've rather gone off the overhead nacelles (although it makes perfect sense for Greg's flying boat). So, I've gone with underwing nacelles inspired by Marshall Aerospace's 'Snoopy' testbed.

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8546.msg155124#msg155124
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2191 on: May 22, 2019, 05:21:07 AM »
Just for fun ... the inverted, upper intake version of the Europrop TP400
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2192 on: May 23, 2019, 03:16:07 AM »
Hmmm...TP400 powered flying boat anyone?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2193 on: May 26, 2019, 02:13:36 AM »
Hmmm...TP400 powered flying boat anyone?

Seagull style.

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2194 on: May 26, 2019, 02:58:49 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2195 on: May 26, 2019, 03:25:57 AM »
Hmmm...TP400 powered flying boat anyone?

Seagull style.



Hmm! think on that I will ---  :icon_meditation:

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2196 on: June 07, 2019, 07:20:41 AM »
First, some background blather ...

When Alexandr Yakovlev's twin-engined Izdelie 22 design first appeared, Iosif Stalin declared it a "miracle" and "a revolution in aviation". Very fast for its time, this small but powerful aircraft was not yet fully-equipped as a military type. [1] Fitted with defensive armament and bombs, the Yakovlev design became the BB-2 (for Blizhnii Bombardirovshchik or Short-range Bomber) or Yak-2. Inevitably, performance suffered once military equipment was installed. Despite having their fuel load reduced, in service BB-2s lost half of their speed advantage. Stability issues also manifested themselves. The role was then shifted to short-range reconnaissance.

Revised as the Yak-4, the Yakovlev fared little better in the recce role. Stability remained an issue and range was inadequate despite added fuel tanks in the wings. Iosif Stalin continued to favour Alexandr Yakovlev whose new single-engine fighter design - the I-26 (later Yak-1) - showed great promise. Politically, it easier to skirt the limitations of the BB-2 and Yak-4 than to challenge Stalin's previous assumptions. Problems inherent in the Izdelie 22 design were buried and production quietly wound down. In the meantime, aviation industry policy-makers attempted to shift an future blame onto those who could not easily defend themselves.

Due to Stalin's purges, most of the Soviet Union's senior aircraft designers were in prison. Most worked in design bureau TsKB-29 inside a NKVD jail. With several major aircraft projects already underway, [2] it was decided to assign responsibility for improving the Yak-4 airframe to two relatively junior designers - Iosif Grigorevich Neman (formerly cheif designer at the Kharkov Aviation Institute) and Dimitri Tomashevich (who had been on of Andrei Tupolev's assistant designers). These two men would be assigned Projects 110A and 110B which were general briefs to improve the performance of the Yak-4. However, those briefs soon became much more specific.

Officialdom was suddenly placing greater urgency on the development of armoured attack aircraft. The 'Project 110' designers were given revised instructions to quickly explore such possibilities for the Yak-4 airframe. Sergei Ilyushin was already designing his TsKB-55 (which would emerge as the Il-2) but there were delays in development. The brilliance of Ilyushin's design was incorporating armoured components as structural components. However, technical difficulties were encountered in ensuring that treated armour retained its shape to precise tolerances. While those difficulties were worked out, alternative 'Shturmoviki' would be needed. All 'Project 110' was to focus on ways of converting the Yak-4 from sow's ear recce aircraft into a silk purse armoured attacker. Neman and Tomashevich would do the work (in competition). If successful, Yakovlev would receive the credit. If a failure, Neman and/or Tomashevich would receive the blame.

(To be continued ...)
________________________

[1] Using the same Klimov M-103 engines, the Izdelie 22 was a full 100 km/h faster than the in-service Tupolev SB 'fast bomber'.

[2] The 'prisoner-workers' in "Tupolev's Jail" were allocated to separate design rooms. There, V. Petlyakov worked at 'Project 100', a high-altitude fighter (which formed the basis of the future Pe-2 bomber); of V. Myasishchev, worked at 'Project 100', a high-altitude bomber (later the DVB-102); while Tupolev himself worked at 'Project 100', a dive-bomber (which became the Tu-2 bomber).
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2197 on: June 07, 2019, 07:21:26 AM »
Potential roles for developed Yak-4s - including likely success in the armoured attacker role - were limited by another policy shift. All available Klimov M-105 engines were now to be reserved for more promising aircraft types - like Yakovlev's I-26/Yak-1 fighter. The imprisoned design team working on 'Project 110' improvements to the Yakovlev Yak-4 design would need to make that airframe useful with less powerful engines. Iosif Nemen first attempted to revise his partially-completed study for a bomber trainer. That trainer was to be powered by twin 730 hp M-25 radials (familiar to Neman from his R-10) but it was quickly concluded that the old Shvetsov radial engines would provide insufficient power for any well-armoured derivative. A complete fresh approach was dictated.

In the first submission for an armoured attack aircraft came from Dimitri Tomashevich. Ironically, the 'Project 110B' team had followed a similar approach to that recently abandoned by Neman's 'Project 110A' group. The Tomashevich design basically adapted the 1,000 hp Shvetsov M-62 radial to the Yak-4 airframe. It was accepted wisdom (based upon Soviet combat experience in Spain) that air-cooled engines were less vulnerable to combat damage than liquid-cooled engines such as the Yak-4's M-105 V-12s. Accordingly, Tomashevich afforded no armour protection to the engines. Instead, only critical engine components - such as the oil filters - received any armour. In contrast, the entire crew compartment (now relocated to sit on the centre-of-gravity) was protected by armour panels bolted to the outside of the airframe.

Top 'Project 110B' Yak-4Sh (Shturmovik) aka Tomashevich OO-BSh (Otdel Opytnovo-Broniovanny Shturmovik or Experimental Design-Armoured Attack Aircraft)

While the Tomashevich proposal was being evaluated by the NII-VVS (the scientific and research arm of the VVS), the Neman team raced to complete their Yak-4-derived armoured attacker. When completed, this rival submission took its NII-VVS judges off guard. In place of a re-engined and armoured Yak-4, the 'Project 110A' team delivered a completely redesigned airframe based closely upon Ilyushin single-seat TsKB-57 attacker. In place of twin engines, a single large Mikulin M-35 inline was installed in the nose (Neman was not yet aware of Mikulin's M-38 development). The armoured cockpit cover from the TsKB-57 was adopted directly. A new forward fuselage was devised - created from welded steel-tubing like the Yak-4's rear fuselage structure. Flanking the cockpit section were bolted-on armoured ducts which protected the side-mounted coolant radiators as well as the pilot. Protection was completed by installing flat-plate armour panels to the rear and below the cockpit.

Bottom 'Project 110A' Yak-Sh aka Neman OO-BSh, single-engined armoured attacker

Where Tomashevich's submission had been conservative, Neman's proposal was audacious. However, neither scheme was accepted - the 'Project 110A' plan being too similar to the preferred Ilyushin attacker, the 'Project 110B' submission being too limited in performance. Instead, both design teams were invited to submit alternative plans. Tomashevich chose to ignore the brief and submitted a very radical plan for a very small, well-protected armoured attacker. Neman submitted a new concept sticking more closely to the original Yak-4 layout but using smaller, air-cooled engines. These were the lightweight Walter Gamma air-cooled, inverted V-12 recently arrived in the Soviet Union. [2]

(To be continued ...)
___________________________________

[1] Under this scheme, the Yak-4-based trainers would receive reconditioned M-25s. This was to allow viable combat types - such as older I-16 fighters - to be re-engined with the more powerful Shvetsov M-62 radial.

[2] Rights to the Walter engines formed part of the Soviet deal with Czechoslovakia to provide Tupolev SB bombers.
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2198 on: June 07, 2019, 07:27:39 AM »
Those are great apophenia and you captured that famous Soviet scheme most wonderfully.

I especially like the 'Project 110A' Yak-Sh at the bottom. There's something about a single-engine, twin-rudder attack bird that just does it for me.

Most excellent!

Brian da Basher

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2199 on: June 08, 2019, 03:12:13 AM »
Interesting. I have also considered a naval conversion for the 1/48 Yak-2 kit I have.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.