Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 459520 times)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1375 on: June 30, 2016, 11:57:35 AM »
interesting... thanks!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1376 on: July 01, 2016, 02:51:51 AM »
 :)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1377 on: July 01, 2016, 06:54:20 AM »
Thanks guys. This time, a full whif on the Draken ...

The Swedish AF's Draken 35 MOD level 4 upgrade was never completed. Instead, the best J 35F airframes were rebuilt as AJ 35J attack aircraft. Other 'F model Drakens were set aside for more extensive rebuilds.

The 66 J 35M Draken 2 was intended to bolster numbers of JA 37 Viggen fighters. The Draken 2s received new forward fuselages similar to that of the Viggen - including the JA 37's larger diameter Ericsson PS 46/A radar. Small, fixed foreplanes were also fitted.

The related 'AJ 38' program considered extensive modifications of surplus J 35F airframes for the strike and tactical recce roles. In contrast with the J 35M, the 'AJ 38' was to retain the standard J 37F nose (other than adopting the J 35M's canard surfaces). The rear fuselage was to be a adapted for the installation of a Turbo-Union RB199 Mk 104 turbofan engine.

Two schemes were considered for thrust reversing the RB199 engine. One approach involved scaling the arrangement used on the Viggen's Volvo RM8. A second concept simply turned the thrust reverser from the Panavia Tornado on its side. In the end, the 'AJ 38' scheme was abandoned as too complex and expensive for the structural life remaining in the J 35F airframes.

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Offline AXOR

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1378 on: July 02, 2016, 02:26:33 AM »
Lovely  :-* It looks so natural !
Alex

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1379 on: July 02, 2016, 02:46:02 AM »
The larger canopy and windscreen on your J35M looks ideal and is certainly an improvement over the original J35 canopy/windscreen as originally built. 
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1380 on: July 03, 2016, 11:49:43 AM »
Thanks folks.

Jeffry: I was originally playing with just a new canopy on the Draken. Raising the cockpit worked better ... so, I thought why not go with the Viggen radar too?

The next was prompted by discussions of turbo/no turbo for the P-47 in the Ideas and Inspiration section. I thought it would cleaner and meaner without. Now I thinking that a turboless Thunderbolt just look a bit malnourished  ???
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1381 on: July 03, 2016, 03:12:01 PM »
Much sleeker, though! ;)
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1382 on: July 03, 2016, 04:33:06 PM »
Thanks for your aesthetic surgery on the ugly Mrs Thunderbolt... :-*

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1383 on: July 03, 2016, 05:20:24 PM »
Interesting
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1384 on: July 03, 2016, 08:25:25 PM »
It is a love child between a Sea Fury and a regular Thunderbolt. Hmmm ......
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1385 on: July 04, 2016, 05:41:00 AM »
Thanks folks!

It is a love child between a Sea Fury and a regular Thunderbolt. Hmmm ......

TBG: It took me a couple of steps to arrive at the same conclusion. At first, I was puzzled as to why it looked like an anemic Tempest Mk.II. My second thought was that it needed the full Fury treatment.

So, a new, shorter fuselage was devised which repositions the cockpit and eliminates the wing centre-section. Instead of bolting to the fuselage side, the wing panels now join on the centreline.

The inboard machine guns are removed (they wouldn't clear the prop anymore), reducing fixed armament to six .50-cals. Obviously, the centreline rack is also eliminated. The upsides would be in the weight loss - the GE turbo-supercharger and its ducting is dumped, plus the fuselage structure is reduced. As well as being lighter, the resulting 'Mini-Bolt' would also be more manoeuvrable at low altitude.

(BTW: I forgot to mention that I based my original turboless Tbolt on a mélange of Gaetan Marie's P-47B and P-47C profiles.
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1386 on: July 04, 2016, 10:09:44 AM »
Thunderchild? ???


Put a hook on her & you get Seabolt ... ::)
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Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1387 on: July 04, 2016, 02:01:01 PM »
Looks wrong because it no longer looks like member of it's Seversky/Republic P-35/P-41/P-43 design lineage, the T-Bolt wasn't thick because of the Turbo, it got the Turbo for the same reason it's P-43 predecessor got the Turbo - fuselage volume inherent to the
basic Kartveli design.
Also remember the deep belly under the wing of the P-47D was a fairing to cover the belly tank plumbing and attachments that was added during C production.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1388 on: July 04, 2016, 02:49:04 PM »
I seem to remember someone modelling one like this a while back...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1389 on: July 04, 2016, 11:11:47 PM »
Looks wrong because it no longer looks like member of it's Seversky/Republic P-35/P-41/P-43 design lineage, the T-Bolt wasn't thick because of the Turbo, it got the Turbo for the same reason it's P-43 predecessor got the Turbo - fuselage volume inherent to the
basic Kartveli design.
Also remember the deep belly under the wing of the P-47D was a fairing to cover the belly tank plumbing and attachments that was added during C production.
I disagree: it looks right because dreamers don't care much of such practical details... ;)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1390 on: July 12, 2016, 08:10:45 AM »
Thanks for the feedback folks!

Jon: I see where you're coming from with the P-43 but I'm not sure that I agree on all Kartvelli designs. In general outline, Jackie Cochrane's Seversky AP-7A isn't so different from the Sea Fury-ized T'bolt.

I'm not sure about the P-43/P-44 but, it seems to me that the depth of the P-47 belly layout was also partly determined by the placement of twin oil coolers flanking the huge air intake. Perhaps move those coolers to the wings à la the Sea Fury?
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1391 on: July 12, 2016, 10:51:42 AM »
Kartvelli could definitely design them very slim and sleek, too—when it called for it.



Cheers,

Logan

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1392 on: July 12, 2016, 06:05:55 PM »
Always loved the look of the early Republic jets, I know there were hotter ships out there at the time but they just had a clean classic look to them.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1393 on: July 12, 2016, 11:22:03 PM »
Your thinned P-47 with open canopy makes me think of something: we could still improve the T'bolt beauty by a rear canopy (à la YP-37): close the canopy sliding the windscreen backwards (instead of the canopy forward), and it is done!

Offline tahsin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1394 on: July 27, 2016, 07:22:57 PM »
I seem to remember someone modelling one like this a while back...


Howling Mouse(?) is not a member here? Finished product on this page.

http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,18835.255.html

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 07:26:34 PM by tahsin »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1395 on: July 28, 2016, 03:46:08 AM »
That's the one.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1396 on: July 28, 2016, 04:24:13 AM »
I seem to remember someone modelling one like this a while back...
Howling Mouse(?) is not a member here? Finished product on this page.

http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,18835.255.html


He is a member here on this forum as John Howling Mouse 
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1397 on: July 28, 2016, 09:31:45 AM »
In true JHM fashion, the Noisy Rodent's approach was a full transverse section of the fuselages!  :o
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1398 on: October 17, 2016, 05:56:49 AM »
Carlos' musings on automotive whifs prompts me to resuscitate my failed attempt for the Non-Military GB. I had planned to do a whole series of scenarios aimed at 'Saving Studebaker' (and its Packard parent company). Those various Studebaker-Packard scenarios got waaay too long-winded and over-involved and I bailed on the GB.

So, here, I'm just going to give a potted scenario and post the images ...

First up is Go-Big-or-Go-Home scenario for Packard circa 1954. In the RW, Packard had fallen behind when rival Cadillac introduced an iron-block 331 cid V-8 in 1949. In this scenario, instead of proceeding with a copy-cat iron-block V-8, Studebaker-Packard President Jim Nance realized that playing catch-up was a losing proposition. Packard needed to distinguish itself if it was to survive.

The order went out to resume earlier work a new aluminum-block V-12. This engine drew heavily on Packard's wartime experience building the V-1690 Merlin aero-engine. The result was the 1955 Packard Clipper V-12. Due to its aluminum block construction, the Clipper V-12 was lighter than many contemporary American iron-block V-8s despite having larger dimensions. The initial 404 cid Clipper V-12 using the same pistons as the planned for the iron-block 320 cid V-8 but now running in steel sleeve inserts. This engine would go into Packard's new prestige personal-luxury car, the 1955 Paragon V-12.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1399 on: October 17, 2016, 05:59:24 AM »

While Packard engineers prepared the Clipper V-12, work was also underway on a V-8 derivative. The aluminum-block Clipper V-8 shared many parts with its V-12 stablemate - including its 'square' 3.5-inch bore and stroke. The intital-production Clipper V-8 displaced 269 cid. This was a substantially smaller displacement than Cadillac' iron V-8 but the aluminum-block Clipper V-8 was also substantially lighter. As with the V-12s, bore was increased to 3.75-inches in 1957, increasing displacement to 309 cid.

The aluminum-block Clipper V-8 first went into the Packard Panther (based directly on the 1954 showcar) and its convertible equivalent, the Packard Pacific. In effect, these cars were the V-8 family sedan versions of the Paragon V-12.

The Clipper V-8 was also installed in the Studebaker 'Lowboys', including their Packard version. Displayed as the PowerHawk showcar in 1954, the production models were rebranded as the Packard Paladin. A new, streamlined nose was introduced along with, on the Paladin hardtop, a new Thunderbird-style roofline. The Paladin came standard with Packard's Ultramatic transmission and the sports model featured a hood scoop for its '6-Pack' carburetors.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."