Author Topic: Dassault Étendard and Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 6793 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Hi folks,

a thread dedicated to your Dassault Étendard and Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard Ideas and Inspiration.

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
To begin with, here is some info on a speculative  Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard upgrade with afterburning F404-GE-400 engine plus dorsal fuel tanks:


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
How about France pulls out of the Jaguar programme entirely (or Jaguar never happens in the first place) a buys a land-based attack version of the Super E instead? if it followed the Jaguar A pattern, it would have a shoerter, slimmer "tin" nose than the naval version with a laser-ranger in a blister underneath it. Weapons could be AS-30s, AS-30Ls, AS-137 ARMAT (MARTEL) or any French bomb.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
How about France pulls out of the Jaguar programme entirely (or Jaguar never happens in the first place) a buys a land-based attack version of the Super E instead? if it followed the Jaguar A pattern, it would have a shoerter, slimmer "tin" nose than the naval version with a laser-ranger in a blister underneath it. Weapons could be AS-30s, AS-30Ls, AS-137 ARMAT (MARTEL) or any French bomb.


Well there was the Dassault Étendard II and Dassault Étendard VI which were offered to Armée de l'Air (ALA) and NATO respectively as land based attack aircraft.  They lost out to the Mirage III and G-91 respectively.

Dassault Étendard II:


Dassault Étendard VI:


If either or both of these had been successful in being selected, you could then have the basis for an upgraded version akin to the Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
In the 1960's Canada felt that if there were to be a boots-on-the-ground conflict between the Russian and the Americans, they would become involved by default.   As part of battlefield reconnaissance plans, a number of Etendard IVPs were purchased.    The aircraft finally saw action in the early 1990's in Iraq and later the Balkans.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Both the Greeks and the Danes used the SuE as a maritime strike aircraft.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
And if the Greeks used them, would the Turks be far behind?

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
To begin with, here is some info on a speculative  Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard upgrade with afterburning F404-GE-400 engine plus dorsal fuel tanks:
Hmm,  it would be interesting to see the various tradeoffs regarding also equipping this upgrade with a variable intake; an afterburning F404 might push all-out performance up to where such would be needed.

This does suggest another possibility, Israeli SE's re-engined along the lines of the Kfir.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Or if the relationship with France didn't sour Israel buying the Etendard instead of the Skyhawk, which would leave the possibility of Israel buying the Mirage F-2 or G2 instead of the Phantom and the Mirage F-1, then 2000 instead of the F-16 with the Mirage 4000 following instead of the F-15  :D

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
The thing is, for a land-based air force, why would you want the Super E when you can have a Mirage 5, Mirage 50 or Mirage F.1? They can all be fitted with Agave and Exocet if you want, and they're faster and more versatile.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Hi guys,

Just received my Kinetic and I'm looking for whif idea.
I'm not yet decided for a real world one (French Navy in 2 grey tones or 1 one grey tone but I don't find a good payload configuration) and a whif one (more liberty for the payload, and I'm thinking about a possible upgrade with or w/o engine change*).

*with minimum structural change if engine is different

Any idea are welcome  :P

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • Reinvented Austria and the Stuka....Now what?
What about Singapore? It's well known that they had a deal with France to carry out their A-4 training from Cazeaux.

Perhaps they could opt for the SuE over the Scooter and be fully integrated into the French navy's training sylabus for the type.

Generally, I think the SuE could be good shore based anti shipping platform for any European or Asian nation with smaller waters to defend.

As for the engine, I'm not sure how tightly packed things are in the back end of the SuE, perhaps a dry Spey could work as an upgrade. It was a few inches bigger in diameter than the Atar, but a few inches shorter. Though, even in dry form the Spey would have given a lot more thrust than the Atar. As a turbofan, it certainly would have been more fuel efficient. Trying to fit one might be worth the effort.

I'd also think about taking the airbrakes out of their current location to free the area up for a couple of fuselage weapon stations. Move the airbrakes to the rear fuselage, or possibly give it split aileron type speed brakes.



« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 04:20:42 PM by upnorth »
Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
How about the Super Etendard really was super, i.e. higher performance than jaguar, perhaps pretty much a French Super Tiger, and as such was a viable replacement for Frances Crusaders?  Increased production run plus maybe more exports of this mach 1.7-2, slightly multi-role fighter.

Maybe as well as more power it could also have had a blown wing, or other high lift features, making operation off modernised Colossus and Majestic class carriers truly viable. 

One of my books stated that the US was looking at recommissioning four modernised Essex class carriers in the 80s as part of Lehmans 600 ship navy, a reason stated for this not going forward was the lack of a suitable modern combat aircraft to fly from them.  An Americanised Super Etendard (a genuine Skyhawk, Crusader and Corsair replacement) bought to fly from the recommissioned Essex's as well as from a new generation of CVS procured to supplement and replace them.

What about Singapore? It's well known that they had a deal with France to carry out their A-4 training from Cazeaux.

Love this idea, I take note for this.

As for the engine, I'm not sure how tightly packed things are in the back end of the SuE, perhaps a dry Spey could work as an upgrade. It was a few inches bigger in diameter than the Atar, but a few inches shorter. Though, even in dry form the Spey would have given a lot more thrust than the Atar. As a turbofan, it certainly would have been more fuel efficient. Trying to fit one might be worth the effort.


If it can help you, two pics of the A/C with removed engine :





I'd also think about taking the airbrakes out of their current location to free the area up for a couple of fuselage weapon stations. Move the airbrakes to the rear fuselage, or possibly give it split aileron type speed brakes.

Note a bad idea, I'll think about that. Moving them in the rear part of fuselage could be interesting.

One of my books stated that the US was looking at recommissioning four modernised Essex class carriers in the 80s as part of Lehmans 600 ship navy, a reason stated for this not going forward was the lack of a suitable modern combat aircraft to fly from them.  An Americanised Super Etendard (a genuine Skyhawk, Crusader and Corsair replacement) bought to fly from the recommissioned Essex's as well as from a new generation of CVS procured to supplement and replace them.

Arf... A Super Etendard in US Navy, love that. And, I could stand it along my USN Rafale N :



Have to found a VA of VFA beautiful scheme...

Now I don't know which one to choose  ;D

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Any of the following A-7 operators could be good candidates + you can get decals for them ;)

Greek
Portuguese
Thai





All hail the God of Frustration!!!