Author Topic: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 56451 times)

Offline The Wave

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2020, 01:23:45 AM »
Has anyone done an F-14 in classic WWII USN blue scheme or 30s USAAF blue and yellow?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2020, 01:59:12 AM »
I believe the selection of the F/A-18E/F over the advanced F-14 options related to cost savings of the Super Hornet over other options.  It was perfectly good enough, especially during the peace dividend thinking of the time.
According to some stories, the choice boiled down to Grumman, and GE, being in BuAero's "bad book" over the extra costs incurred in fitting the F110 to the F-14.  The original intention was just a collar/spacer between the end and the inlet and the front face of the engine, the F110 being shorter than the TF30, but this would have made the aircraft unstable and required faster and more powerful flight control computers which were GFE.  When the USN couldn't deliver the new computers in a timely manner, Grumman and GE had to redesign the engine and engine installation to move the engine forward and put the stretch in the section between the engine and nozzle.  When BuAero refused to pay for this, Grumman and GE took them to court and won.  This predisposed BuAero against further F-14 developments.  Yeah, the F/A-18E/F also have GE engines, but they are from a different facility (West Lynn, MA as opposed to Cincinatti, OH) and branch of GE's engine division.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2020, 03:12:07 AM »
Has anyone done an F-14 in classic WWII USN blue scheme or 30s USAAF blue and yellow?

Such as this:



or this:

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Offline finsrin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2020, 04:14:00 AM »
Nice  --  Prefer those schemes over RW schemes.

Offline tahsin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2020, 04:49:04 AM »
How many airliners have Northrop and Grumman have sold together? Remove McDD out of the way and there you are, removing all possible obstacles. "Subpar" is tough competition already...

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2020, 12:24:45 PM »
How many airliners have Northrop and Grumman have sold together? Remove McDD out of the way and there you are, removing all possible obstacles. "Subpar" is tough competition already...

Hah?  ???

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2020, 03:13:53 PM »
Mmmm…… so Various advanced F-14s instead of the F/A-18E/F/G Block I, II, and III.

First whiff, replace the RAAF F and G buys and the recently announced German one, they would also be a better fit with the F-35B/C as well as an interesting option for the USAF and USMC.

As for earlier RAAF adoption, how about the RAAF adopts the A-5 Vigilante instead of the F-111 and needs a late 80s, early 90s replacement?

Extrapolating the Vigilante, lets say the RAAF goes through with the initially planned F-104C buy that was canned and replaced with a final batch of Sabres.  The early introduction of the F-104 / J-79, makes the Vigilante more attractive and the replacement of the remaining Sabres less critical.  With the F-104 and Vigilante in service, the J-79 powered F-4E becomes the obvious choice to replace the ground attack assigned Sabres during the 70s and then the F-14D become the obvious choice to replace the F-104 and Vigilante in the 80s and 90s.  The late build F-4Es are then replaced with enhanced F-14 derivatives in the 2000s, while the early F-14Ds give way to the F-35 in the 2010s and 2020s.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #157 on: May 05, 2020, 01:48:24 AM »
You could also go the route I suggested in Greater Australia whereby they go for the commonality factor between upgraded F-111s and the F-14:

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Offline tahsin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #158 on: May 05, 2020, 04:08:18 AM »
How many airliners have Northrop and Grumman have sold together? Remove McDD out of the way and there you are, removing all possible obstacles. "Subpar" is tough competition already...

Hah?  ???

Only because you have asked. Rationalization is a good thing, you can't have too many. Efficiencies and all that. Then consider the 1957 events which tend to get so many British fans foam at the mouth. The other Lightning and the consolidations it achieved by being unfortunately being far too advanced to be cancelled... The experience so bitter that the Lightning could not be given Sidewinders to double the warload because it was always going to be retired soon. One company, one engine maker and first no one but the Norman Conquest as it was called at the time and GE would not be the second. You know, history. As such the E/F was solely a placeholder until the true item which could have been properly called the F-38 but it was considered Republic's legacy would be better "respected" instead of running the competition as F-23/24 .

Then maybe we should question the very question of rationalization. The French experience would be very illustrative. The French Airforce wants a nuclear strike plane, gets its small training version, Airforce wants F-15 for Colonial policing (because LGB and see Strike Eagle), gets a new delta which it should have had a decade ago. Because "Modéle 53" is not much of a complication... Airforce is even denied the double Mirage 2K because that's for the oil rich Arabs. French Navy wants A-4 or maybe it doesn't and gets half the number of planes it could have bought from America. Navy wants F-18 and nobody even fancies testing 2000 for carrier duty, awesome plane as it is. So, they have to do something and they do Rafale and rushing it would have hurt profits as 2000 has not earned enough to justify the programme and had Rafale been rushed it could have got half the F-16 exports post 1991 in dollar value.

Nothing conspiracy wise, basic economic considerations. lt would be much more fun to discuss why a 21st Century Tomcat would be bad.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 04:10:11 AM by tahsin »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #159 on: May 28, 2020, 03:49:49 AM »
Whilst researching something else, I cam across the following:

"The F-14 Tomcat came close to entering Canadian service through the the back door. The Islamic revolution in Iran had cut off that country’s air force from spare parts for US-supplied equipment – including recently purchased Tomcats.  Rather than be faced with potentially unserviceable aircraft,  Canada tried to convince Iran to sell its almost-new fighters at cut-rate prices. However, the deal was killed once it was realized that Canadian diplomats were  instrumental  in smuggling  US embassy personnel, masquerading as Canadians, out of the Islamic Republic"

Hmmm...RCAF F-14 anyone?



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Offline tahsin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #160 on: June 02, 2020, 02:18:40 AM »
Essentially to stop them moving next door. lran sells toys of the hated Shah, gains some leverage as they were already skirmishing with the lraqis behind closed doors, USN approves. What can go wrong, we were paying in other ways for all the Starfighters being collected here and there, were we not?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #161 on: September 28, 2020, 03:26:12 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #162 on: January 03, 2021, 03:22:47 AM »
Look closely:

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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #163 on: January 03, 2021, 08:36:52 AM »
Look closely:



"Marines"

I think from memory, the F-14, along with the LTV A-7 weren't wanted by the USMC, as they were deemed too expensive, too complex for their notion of warfighting - alas the Navy exserted pressure on the Marine's regardless, for every airframe and engine equated to less chance of Congress killing the programs, as well as lowering the procurement costs......
Personally, with in the Tomcat's case, I think the Marine's were correct in their decision.

Oh, and with a quick search on the web:
"The Marine Corps pulled out of any procurement when the development of the stores' management system for ground attack munitions was not pursued."



MAD
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 08:45:39 AM by M.A.D »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman F-14 Tomcat Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #164 on: January 05, 2021, 03:44:12 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.