Author Topic: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 59043 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2012, 08:15:22 AM »
How about this then...

Citing all the program delays and escalating costs, the USAAF requires Boeing to demonstrate the new systems it proposes for the B-29.  Complying, Boeing pulls a B-17 off the line and "gives it the full treatment."

What rolls out of the hangar then is a B-17 with Wright R-3350 hanging on its wings and all its manned turrets replaced with General Electric's remotes.  You could also muck about with fuselage changes as you wished.  Perhaps grafting the B-29 nose onto the 17's fuselage.

The possibilities abound!

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R-3350s would be cool, however you'd have a hard time hanging four off of a Model 299 airframe.
Twin R-3350s would be cool as it could borrow the installation design from the Model 344,
the XPBB-1 Sea Ranger (which was dubbed The Lone Ranger because only one was built).

Jon
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2012, 12:25:03 PM »
Twin R-3350s would be cool as it could borrow the installation design from the Model 344 ...

Great stuff Jon! ... My take on a twin R-3350 Model 299
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2012, 12:27:04 PM »
Dary,  you can do early B17 evolving from B9 with open cockpit less guns etc. ...

Likin' this idea! (Image based on a B-17D profile by Erik Chipchase)
"... blac to gebeddan; bleda gedreosaþ, wynna gewitaþ, wera geswicaþ"

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2012, 12:59:48 PM »
Twin R-3350s would be cool as it could borrow the installation design from the Model 344 ...

Great stuff Jon! ... My take on a twin R-3350 Model 299
Perhaps we could also have a twin W3420 Model 299?  See the B-19 testbed and the XB-39A for depictions of the engine nacelles for the twin-Allison.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2012, 03:14:22 PM »
Link to cutaway drawing of the B-17G (3,600px × 2,387px 4.3mb file).
Click on image to view larger larger image or to download the file. 

(image source: Tom Philo Photography, Beaverton, Oregon)

Additional images can be views on Tom Philo's page at this link: Collings Foundation Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress "909" US Army Air Force SN 44-83575 (N93012)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

If four R-3350s are too large or too much what about replacing the R-1820s with R-2600s?

Regarding the addition of the remote control turrets.  How about the four-gun turret from the B-29 or the P-61 replacing the forward turret mounted behind the cockpit.  This might be overdoing it a bit but it would certainly be a conversation starter ;^)
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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2012, 05:11:06 PM »
Dary,  you can do early B17 evolving from B9 with open cockpit less guns etc. ...

Likin' this idea! (Image based on a B-17D profile by Erik Chipchase)

I love this idea!
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2012, 11:05:58 PM »
What I had in mind for the Academy B-17B kit was to completely remove the turtle deck and enclose most of it save for an open cockpit, put a more streamlined solid nose on, and remove the various blisters in essence completely cleaning up the lines of the aircraft.   It would be virtually a sitting duck in the sky from a combative point of view but who says it has to be of military function?       One scenario I had was that of a mail plane.
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2012, 12:48:07 AM »
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2012, 01:09:33 AM »
What I had in mind for the Academy B-17B kit was to completely remove the turtle deck and enclose most of it save for an open cockpit, put a more streamlined solid nose on, and remove the various blisters in essence completely cleaning up the lines of the aircraft.   It would be virtually a sitting duck in the sky from a combative point of view but who says it has to be of military function?       One scenario I had was that of a mail plane.

Clearly that would require the cockpit be moved aft to behind the wing.  ;D

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2012, 01:20:30 AM »
What I had in mind for the Academy B-17B kit was to completely remove the turtle deck and enclose most of it save for an open cockpit, put a more streamlined solid nose on, and remove the various blisters in essence completely cleaning up the lines of the aircraft.   It would be virtually a sitting duck in the sky from a combative point of view but who says it has to be of military function?       One scenario I had was that of a mail plane.

Going further down that road, how about removing the turtle deck and streamlining the fuselage, but then fitting a tiny bubble cockpit and B-29 engines. What is it? A B-17 Racer.... 8)
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Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2012, 02:26:33 AM »
... and of course we mustn't forget that there were open-cockpit B-17s:




Project Aphrodite BQ-7
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/bq-7.html

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal10/9801-9900/gal9844-B-17-Kormos/00.shtm
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 06:06:07 AM by jcf »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2012, 02:39:17 AM »
Staying in the family, how about a Model 307 Stratoliner based long-range maritime patrol variant,
or a gunship ala the AC-47? Puff's Big Brother.  ;)



« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 03:47:00 AM by jcf »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2012, 02:40:45 AM »
Liking both those ideas!
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2012, 03:22:57 AM »
This is good - got four topics here.
1.  The early open cockpit B-17s
2.  Those years (post war) of B-17 air races.
3.  B-17H
4.  AC-75 (model 307) gunships.

Lotz of model bashing potential.....

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2012, 04:49:11 AM »
I learned about the Aphrodite project well after I'd set plans for the B-17B but that is precisely the cockpit arrangement in mind.   When the kit showed up on ARCAir and my very first thought was utterly selfish:  "Crap!  Now my B-17 idea won't have the impact I'd like."  but then promptly dismissed that and went on exploring to see how the kit had been constructed.

Another part of the scenario includes Adolph Hitler being accepted into art school so he does not enter politics and WW-2 Europe does not ever even happen.  Boeing needs a market for their new aircraft and it is still sold to the Great Government serving its years well with the U.S. Postal Service.     I've not quite worked out the details of the backstory, obviously, but am working on it.   FYI, yes, A.H. was rejected from art school which precipitated his entry into politics.    (and that's enough of that!!!; this is a B-17 thread)

A Stratoliner Puff?     :icon_surprised:    Oh yeah!   :)    Is it Maquette that makes a 1/72 307 out of 3/4 inch moulded bar soap?   


Much of the white stuff is now imbedded all over the nose of the Land Rover.   :o    Missed work today.   Can we say Hookey!??!    ;D ;D ;D    And yes, it's OK with the boss.   :icon_music:
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 05:20:55 AM by Daryl J. »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2012, 05:30:41 AM »
Let's say the Shark Fin remains in limited production along with the E/F/G variants. (Why?  I have absolutely no idea other than that the Shark Fin'd machines look cool.)   The airframe sees late life service sporting a pair of RR Darts, perhaps doing some type of night duty over SEA.   

Now why didn't I buy a few of the Academy kits out of Hong Kong when they were cheap!!??!  :( :o :icon_sueno:
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2012, 06:24:45 AM »
... One scenario I had was that of a mail plane...

That'd be the Boeing QuadraMail ?
"... blac to gebeddan; bleda gedreosaþ, wynna gewitaþ, wera geswicaþ"

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2012, 07:49:30 AM »
 ;D
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2012, 12:49:39 PM »
Concept of post war B-17 air racers sticks with me.  Two seat tandom low bubble top seating.  Flight engineer to monitor engines etc.  Going around the pylons or timed from city-to-city. 
Bill

Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2012, 04:07:27 PM »
... One scenario I had was that of a mail plane...

That'd be the Boeing QuadraMail ?

... which was especially fetching with the trousered landing gear.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
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-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2012, 05:09:59 PM »
The backdated one makes me think of a big brother to the B-9 (which I would still like a kit of BTW!):

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2012, 06:42:15 PM »
Concept of post war B-17 air racers sticks with me.  Two seat tandom low bubble top seating.  Flight engineer to monitor engines etc.  Going around the pylons or timed from city-to-city.

Sounds like an excuse to kit bash a B-47 with a B-17 to get that tandem cockpit. 
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2012, 10:22:41 AM »
... which was especially fetching with the trousered landing gear.

Has anyone checked to see if Brian da Basher is okay? He hasn't responded yet to the mentioning of a spat-like undercarriage arrangement!
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Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2012, 11:23:37 AM »
... which was especially fetching with the trousered landing gear.

Has anyone checked to see if Brian da Basher is okay? He hasn't responded yet to the mentioning of a spat-like undercarriage arrangement!

I think his current infatuation with long, inflated cylinders has temporarily turned his head.  ;D
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014