Author Topic: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 59258 times)

Offline finsrin

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Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« on: December 28, 2011, 12:13:34 PM »
Like Luft 46.   How about doing 1946 next versions of any plane of any country.   What might the B-17H be like as it faces Luft 46 ?

Offline Maverick

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2011, 08:38:42 PM »
There was a B-17H though.  Nominally the SB-17G, but also referred to as the B-17H in some instances.

On that theme however, I suspect the B-17 would be a second line machine and the B-29 or 32 (or 35!) would be the regular bomber.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 02:59:08 AM »
Here's a possible '46 B-17?

USAAF leaders hoped the new lighter, sleeker, faster turbo-prop (one engine being more powerful than than 4 piston engines) B-17H would be able to survive.  Unfortunately they were wrong...




Regards,

Greg
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 02:37:58 PM »
Next version of B-17.  Thinking that will be B-17H from what I know.  You guys correct me if it is different.  B-17G is a fine bomber, a challenge to improve upon.
Have the configuration figured out and all the major parts to build it with.  Probably need some more bits-n-pieces once construction is in progress.  Have to assign it a place in the production queue.

Bill

Offline Maverick

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 07:53:13 PM »
This explains the H designation somewhat:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2456

But at the end of the day, it's your whif.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Online Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2011, 01:00:57 AM »
Post WW2 - B-17J JSDF AF SAR bird with markings found on their P-2J Neptunes or S-2 Trackers.  White topsides and a dark sea blue or engine gray for the rest of the aircraft.  Might be a nice diversion from the norm. 
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Offline sequoiaranger

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2012, 01:59:27 AM »
Here's a little humorous model I made a while back--a "motor home" that was an ex "bond drive" concoction. The "loo with a view" is the top turret. A single radial engine provides horsepower (the little prop is a wind-driven generator). Model is 1/72 with 1/200 B-17 tail pieces, and a Horsa rear perspex. Hard to tell, but the nacelle has a "sidecar" seat with a boy waving a red hat in it.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 02:02:39 AM by sequoiaranger »
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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 02:56:45 AM »
I love it!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Maverick

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2012, 07:00:23 AM »
Wild stuff indeed.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 08:47:42 AM »
Assuredly of my least serious pixel works... the Boeing B-31A Megafortress. Needless to say, that one would require at least three B-17 models to get it done, and I'm not quite sure that would be worth the while!



And here is the zaniest thing I ever did, the XUB-1 Ultrafortress (almost called it the Überfortress!!). No comment...

« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 08:49:53 AM by Stargazer2006 »

Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 09:53:28 AM »
OH, OH, OH,,,   Megafortress and Ultrafortress are fantabulously inspiring.
On beyond the B-17H for which the parts already aquired and waiting for a place in production schedule.
Currently the production shop is busy with a twin engine jet bomber involving five models and three scales.  So have time to consider configurations for a B-17I that might be built after the B-17H is done.
Thanks for the inspiring insight on B-17 possibilities.

Bill

Offline dy031101

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 10:10:01 AM »
And here is the zaniest thing I ever did, the XUB-1 Ultrafortress (almost called it the Überfortress!!). No comment...

Guess I'll have to assume it to be the evidence of someone already brainstorming on the zwilling idea.  :D
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 12:11:43 PM »
If you want play with a '46 version of the B-17 I'll venture my thoughts.  The USAAF would move them to reserve/training roles while B-29s/36s and maybe even Northrop's Flying Wings took over the main bomber roles.  The USN (and other navies) would probably start using them for Maritime Patrol bombers and AEW (maybe both rolled into one?) like the Project Cadillac birds.  I've always been fond of re-assigning AF birds to the Navy and I think an ASW/AEW role would suite the old workhorses quite well.  Pack the bomb bay with FIDO acoustic homing torpedoes, hang some BAT air-to-surface missiles under the wings, paint up in a couple of shades of blue and you have a winner  8)
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 07:55:53 PM »
I think the USN took the better choice in the real world with the PB4Y-1.  The Liberator was a much better machine all-round compared to the B-17.  Whilst I realise there's a certain mystique attached to the Fortress, the reality is somewhat different. But onto the whifs.

My alternate use for them was as ECM machines similar to those employed by the RAF's 100 Gp.  I had considered a scenario where German development of SAM type systems had been more successful forcing a stop to the US daylight offensive and a switch to the RAF night bombing mission.  Fast forward a couple of years and war-weary B-17s and B-24s become 'Ravens', handing the strategic mission quite rightly to the B-29 & B-35.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2012, 11:27:50 AM »
While at the LHS, I purchased an Academy B-17B with the plan to fill in the side blisters, remove the turtle deck and create an open side-by-side cockpit.   Points of debate for me are whether or not it should feature twin blade props, cloth wings, or a long and solid nose profiled rather like the  B-17F.   It's role?   Who knows.    :)
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2012, 02:04:08 PM »
1)  Using a B-17D as the starting point, do the alternate rear-gun position Boeing played with, a very streamlined blister on the existing contours coupled with twin verticals on the ends of the horizontal tail.
2)  A cross between the B-17G and the XB-38, essentially a "G" powered by four turbocharged Allison engines.
3)  Either "2" above or the XB-38 as the equivalent of the Avro Manchester with two Allison W3420s in place of four V1710s.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2012, 02:16:53 PM »
As for what-iffing B-17 portion of USAAC '46.  I agree with Cliffy and Maverick.  Considering the envisioned (to be bashed) B-17H, B-17E & F rotate to training and lower threat areas as the H comes on line late 45.  For 46 with more B-17H, same is done with G models.  During 1946 B-17H, B-29, B-32.... are mainstay as their production lines keep delivering.  B-17 line switches to H with a modest tooling interruption instead of halting and retooling for something thatz all different.  This will be most significant model-to-model change and definitely still be a B-17.  Have majotity of parts gathered and looking forward to building my concept of a B-17H improved for service in late 45 thru 46.  Should be a fun and challenging what-if.....
Then maybe try building a Megafortress.
Daryl -- Like to see what you come up with as an extra early model of B-17.  Perhaps using B-10B engines (Wright R-1820-33).
Enjoy the modeling.
Bill

Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2012, 02:25:17 PM »
Thanks Elmayerle  ---  Some kind of XB-38 flavoring in the B-17 soup may also help get to '46

Bill

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2012, 02:45:07 PM »
What about arming the B-17H with the remote control turrets from the B-29?  At least for the top turret and the belly turret.  Keep the waist gunner positions and include a remote sighting station with the gun mounts.  It would certainly look different. 
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 09:43:46 AM »
Dary,  you can do early B17 evolving from B9 with open cockpit less guns etc.  Like a pre model 299.
Jeff,  like the remote turret, may work that in.
traveling now,,, like to get back to twin engine jet bomber, finish it then start P38 based bash, maybe B17H after that.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 08:56:05 PM »
There was a suggestion on the other place for an "Under the Influence" GB; I suspect the intention was mostly planes in beer can logos, but I got to thinking about other influences, like philosophies, for instance. Then it hit me: I like to call myself a Fortean, so we obviously need a B-17 Flying Fortean...

I have a Revell B-17F stashed away with the intention of doing this one day. Basically, it will be equipped with all sorts of Heath-Robinson detectors for things like UFO, fish falls, ghosts, lake monsters, ley lines, chupacabras, conspiracies, and an automatic printing press in the bomb bay to carpet bomb skeptics and true believers alike with a blizzard of purple prose.... >:D
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Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2012, 04:35:10 AM »








The B-17E originally had a remotely operated belly turret.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 05:26:36 AM by jcf »
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2012, 05:08:06 AM »
Thanks, jcf!  These are great!

Cheers,

Logan

Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2012, 07:50:24 AM »
Thanks,  will help with model 298.5 design.  All we need is a builder.

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Re: Boeing B-17 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2012, 07:54:52 AM »
How about this then...

Citing all the program delays and escalating costs, the USAAF requires Boeing to demonstrate the new systems it proposes for the B-29.  Complying, Boeing pulls a B-17 off the line and "gives it the full treatment."

What rolls out of the hangar then is a B-17 with Wright R-3350 hanging on its wings and all its manned turrets replaced with General Electric's remotes.  You could also muck about with fuselage changes as you wished.  Perhaps grafting the B-29 nose onto the 17's fuselage.

The possibilities abound!