Author Topic: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 12596 times)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2018, 03:08:43 AM »
The floatplane is an interesting idea, however it would need larger, longer floats.

In 1/72, perhaps the floats from a E16A1 Zuiun? The take-off weights are similar - 10,000 lb for the Zuiun,  11,445 lb for the Whirlwind. (1/48 would be tricker ... is there a kit in this scale other than that of  Raccoon Models?)

Or maybe use two Rufe main floats?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2018, 06:18:52 AM »
Cool
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2018, 09:01:05 AM »
Well I'm making these for a Blenheim (actually a Bolingbroke). It's max T.O.W. is 14,400 lbs so just a tad big, but they could be reduced in size even more than what I am doing to them

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2019, 11:13:13 PM »
How about the RAF goes for the original, lighter, Kestrel powered Whilwind and gets it in service, much earlier, in much greater numbers?

My thinking is with production already underway with a proven and reliable engine, the design would be much more likely to be perfected, mass produced, then improved.

Offline jcf

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2019, 04:37:33 AM »
How about the RAF goes for the original, lighter, Kestrel powered Whilwind ... "
???

The original twin-tailed P.9 was to be powered by the Kestrel K.26, which was just the
developmental designation of what was later named the Peregrine.

"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2019, 05:26:58 AM »
How about the RAF goes for the original, lighter, Kestrel powered Whilwind ... "
???

The original twin-tailed P.9 was to be powered by the Kestrel K.26, which was just the
developmental designation of what was later named the Peregrine.

Are there any photos or drawings of the twin tail version Jon ?

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2019, 01:52:46 AM »
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:55:15 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline jcf

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2019, 03:38:17 AM »

The original twin-tailed P.9 was to be powered by the Kestrel K.26, which was just the
developmental designation of what was later named the Peregrine.


Are there any photos or drawings of the twin tail version Jon ?


Here ya go, 3-view. Note that it's not simply a twin-tailed Whirlwind.



"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline jcf

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2019, 03:42:57 AM »
The drawing Greg posted shows it as twin-tailed Whirlwind, which the 3-view shows
as not being the case. The twin tail was abandoned at the same time that the fuselage
was deepened and the inner wing panels straightened at the trailing edge for the
Fowler flaps.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2019, 03:58:42 AM »
Cheers Jon/Greg, it looks very interesting  :smiley:

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2019, 06:53:57 PM »
Bugger, now I need to find the reference.  I am trying to remember where I read it but the gist was the original P.9 concept had Kestrels and they were replaced with K26/Peregrine as weight increased from added equipment and specification changes.

I have only read this in one place (and cant remember where) so it may not be the case and the author could have been confusing the K26 with the 650hp Kestrel. 


Not wedded to the idea at all but if it was the case that there was a 650hp Kestrel powered design, it could have been available earlier and not suffered the development issues of the actual adopted design.

Offline jcf

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2019, 05:55:43 AM »
Buttler BSP Vol. 3 Fighters & Bombers 1935 - 1950, states explicitly
that the Kestrel K.26 (Peregrine) was picked at the beginning.
The Putnam Westland Aircraft since 1915, and Goulding's Interceptor,
state the same.

The Kestrel XVI would most likely be the best match fotr your idea:
670 hp at 2,225 rpm for takeoff
690 hp at 2,600 rpm at 11,000 ft (continuous power, medium supercharged))
745 hp at 3,000 rpm at 14,500 ft (Max emergency power, fully supercharged))
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: April 18, 2019, 07:25:20 PM »
Buttler BSP Vol. 3 Fighters & Bombers 1935 - 1950, states explicitly
that the Kestrel K.26 (Peregrine) was picked at the beginning.
The Putnam Westland Aircraft since 1915, and Goulding's Interceptor,
state the same.

The Kestrel XVI would most likely be the best match fotr your idea:
670 hp at 2,225 rpm for takeoff
690 hp at 2,600 rpm at 11,000 ft (continuous power, medium supercharged))
745 hp at 3,000 rpm at 14,500 ft (Max emergency power, fully supercharged))

Thanks for that.

Offline jcf

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Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2019, 02:35:53 AM »
Buttler also mentions that consideration had been given to totally redesigning the Kestrel, going
beyond the Merlin-like features added to make the Peregrine, this was passed on as it would
have required more redesign of the P.9 and added to the overall delay. What the changes
would have been he doesn't say, to me it gives rise to visions of an even slimmer installation
something along the lines of the Merlin 130/131 installation as used on the DH Hornet.

Goulding mentions that a Dewotine D.510 was borrowed by the RAF to explore the possibilities
of the engine mounted cannon concept, and that Rolls-Royce offered to create a moteur canon
version of the Kestrel, giving the possibility of a six gunned P.9/Whirlwind.
 ;D
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Westland Whirlwind Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2019, 06:23:56 AM »
... Rolls-Royce offered to create a moteur canon
version of the Kestrel, giving the possibility of a six gunned P.9/Whirlwind.
 ;D

Ooo, that gives all kinds of late '30s RAF options. Cheers Jon  :smiley:
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