Author Topic: Saladin R  (Read 1516 times)

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Saladin R
« on: April 12, 2026, 08:00:43 PM »
Regarding the new GB, I have a couple of builds in mind and, if time permits, I may give both a go.  However, to start things off I came across this nugget recently and thought it might fit the bill nicely and not detract too much from other overdue projects.

Not wanting to waste too much time in setting the scene, I will, for brevity, quote directly from the excellent work done by the folks at tanks-encyclopaedia.com.

Saladin R

The Saladin R is an often overlooked part of the FV601’s history. Essentially, it was a private venture by Alvis to create a new vehicle for the export market. The Saladin R consisted of the standard Saladin hull, equipped with a newer CVR(T)-style turret and armed with the RARDEN (Royal Armament, Research and Development Establishment, ENfield) auto-cannon – hence Saladin RARDEN or ‘R’. Saladin was already an incredible export success for Alvis, but with the R, they were really trying to target the Middle East, specifically Kuwait.

Placed atop the unchanged hull, the new turret was a slightly modified version of that found on the FV107 Scimitar CVR(T) [My note: As you can see from the images below, the turret in question was more likely that of, or based upon, the turret from the FV721 Fox CVR(W) rather than the FV107 Scimitar - likely a result of not wanting to disrupt the CVR(T) production lines and/or the availability of turrets following the less than successful introduction of the Fox]. It was an all-aluminum construction, and carried the 30 mm RARDEN automatic cannon, as well as a coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun. The RARDEN was compatible with Hispano-Suiza 831L rounds, of which 189 would be provided. Ammunition was pre-loaded in 3-round clips, with various types available, such as high-explosive incendiary (HE-I), armor-piercing high-explosive (APHE) and even armor-piercing discarding sabot (APDS), to name but a few. Two men operated the turret, which was all-manual in control, including gun elevation, which was -10° to +40°. While not equipped to face heavy armor, the gun was best suited to a support role, being used against soft-skinned vehicles, infantry or helicopters. In the production brochure for the R, Alvis listed the targeted roles for the vehicle. These included reconnaissance, advance to combat, battle reporting, delaying actions and anti-helicopter fire.

Despite being a relatively easy conversion, no orders for the vehicle were ever placed by either the British Army or prospective foreign customers. As it was not designed under a British Military request, it also never received a Fighting Vehicle or ‘FV’ number. It is not known whether any vehicles were built. Alvis may very well have produced mock-ups of the vehicle to show off – as they were known to do – but nothing short of art-work has been found for this particular Saladin variant.





So, what if the British Army had decided to order the Saladin R?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2026, 03:56:53 AM by Claymore »
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Online Mig Eater

  • Munch, Munch, Munch
    • Mig Eater Studio
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2026, 08:17:11 PM »
Interesting idea, the slim turret makes the Saladin look a lot more modern and sporty compared to the original boxy turret.

Do you plan to use the 1/35 Dragon kit as the base? Airfix have released a kit of Stalwart and announced a Saracen kit, I'd expect a Saladin isn't that far off too, but to late for this GB.   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2026, 09:57:01 PM by Mig Eater »

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2026, 08:36:46 PM »
Sadly, the Dragon kit is a bit like Unicorn poop - either unavailable or needlessly expensive when it does pop up.  :(

I do have an old Tamiya Saladin kit languishing in my pile of broken and discarded builds but since there is hardly a single scale dimension that is correct on that antique, I will be leaving it well alone.  ;)

So where does that leave me? Not sure, but, as Baldrick would say, I have a cunning plan…
« Last Edit: April 12, 2026, 08:45:59 PM by Claymore »
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2026, 11:56:30 PM »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Online Mig Eater

  • Munch, Munch, Munch
    • Mig Eater Studio
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2026, 01:41:47 AM »
I have a cunning plan…

Are you going to amaze us with your scratch building skills again :D

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2026, 03:50:03 AM »
I should be a bit miffed as I picked up a dragon Saladin recently in Japan to do exactly this  ;D
It has sat on the back burner waiting until a suitable Scimitar kit popped up somewhere, being too cheap to pay retail.

Please proceed I want to see where you take this  :smiley:

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2026, 04:10:47 AM »
You are lucky being able to get the Dragon kit from source while I have to deal in Unicorn poop!  ;D

It is odd that the records state a slightly modified FV107 Scimitar turret when all of the available company images clearly show what appears to be a FV721 Fox/Sabre turret - similar but definitely not the same…

Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2026, 05:24:37 AM »
Here is a tester I did when I got my first Saladin. Just a turret swap from existing models to see how it looked.



I do have the Accurate Armour Fox on the shelf as well, so there is the turret source, albeit it would bust up my Brit AFV collection a bit.

Again, really interested how you proceed with this

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2026, 05:31:25 PM »
Needs something like a MILAN ATGW on top of the turret or perhaps a pair of Swingfire missiles in box launchers to the side/rear.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline robunos

  • Can't afford the top wing of his biplanes...
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2026, 11:19:45 PM »
Ferret Mk.5 turret . . .

cheers ,
Robin .
Do you think I don't know you ?
I can look inside your memories, your nightmares, your dreams.
You're a man haunted by those two most terrible words:
WHAT IF ?

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2026, 06:01:58 AM »
All very interesting stuff I’m sure my good fellows, but I will be building the Saladin R as per my initial premise and the attached imagery - just as Alvis intended.  ;) :smiley:
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2026, 06:08:02 AM »
All very interesting stuff I’m sure my good fellows, but I will be building the Saladin R as per my initial premise and the attached imagery - just as Alvis intended.  ;) :smiley:

As you should  :smiley:
Eagerly awaiting the starting point you choose since the two "out there" options seem off the table. I am hoping, to see a bit magic happen, perhaps on an recent Airfix offering perchance ?

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2026, 08:29:28 PM »
So, the Saladin R turret issue (Scimitar-like v Fox) is solved.  When the contract for the production run for the new FV721 Fox CVR(W) was being put to tender, it was more of less assumed that it would go to the Leyland Group, which comprised Jaguar/Daimler and Alvis.  The design was theirs and they had produced the initial prototypes.  Indeed, the contract for Alvis to mass produce the new turret had already been awarded - their design was loosely based on the Scimitar turret with a common weapon (30mm RARDEN) and sighting systems but in a new bulged square turret rather than the Scimitar's octagonal shape.  At the same time as Jaguar/Daimler were submitting their tender for production of the hull, the Royal Ordinance Factory (ROF) in Leeds also submitted a bid which substantially undercut their competitor. 

With no experience of producing wheeled armoured vehicles, the ROF bid was a political and financial gamble which, not surprisingly, didn’t pay off.  The production FV721 Fox which entered service was beset with mechanical and stability problems that were never wholly rectified.  Indeed, the only component that seemed to fully function as advertised, was Alvis’s turret.

With the CVR(T) production line in full flow, this perhaps explains why Alvis's Saladin R proposal offered the alternative Fox turret rather than the Scimitar's and might also have been influenced by an expectation that the FV721 Fox might even have been cancelled after a number of new turrets had already been produced.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2026, 12:56:52 AM by Claymore »
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2026, 11:16:37 PM »
Of course it came down to cut-price politics.

Smart-money commonsense never enters into military procurement.

 ::) ::) ::)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2026, 12:57:57 AM »
Of course it came down to cut-price politics.

Smart-money commonsense never enters into military procurement.

 ::) ::) ::)

For sure…  :icon_crap:
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 11:36:45 PM »
With the Tamiya and Dragon models off the cards, I contemplated (for a few nano-seconds) butchering the Airfix Saracen when it eventually comes out.  However:

1) The model isn’t due to be released here until the end of next month.
2) Any conversion would still be a massive undertaking - same goes for the Stalwart.
3) I have a bit of a soft spot for the venerable Saracen having stooged around in one out on the ranges and it remains one of the few models I would (will) build out of the box rather than chop up out of hand.

So, that left me looking at my entry-level Creality 3D printer wondering what might be possible. With 3 different Saladin and one Fox CVR(W) CAD files to play with a lot of accuracy and scaling checks followed which resulted in one of the Saladin being immediately rejected when it became obvious that it was essentially just a copy of the inaccurate Tamiya offering.  I also had to account for the limitations of my filament printer by removing any and details that wouldn’t print. That pushed my abilities and that of my school-boy CAD program to our limits but eventually I got there and it was time to release the dogs of war - well, more like the poodles of printing!

The removed/missing detail all had to be replaced from the spares box or manufactured but the end result is pretty close to what I was after…








« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:45:33 PM by Claymore »
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 11:43:38 PM »
A few more bits of detailing and a spray of primer helps bring the wee beastie together and all for a little over £5 - bargain!  :smiley:














« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:46:40 PM by Claymore »
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #17 on: Today at 01:38:57 AM »
Thought this might amuse you;



From over on What If Modellers;

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=30511.msg1111775#new
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #18 on: Today at 02:57:46 AM »
Thought this might amuse you;

From over on What If Modellers;

Yup, the Japanese Type 87 APC does indeed look a little like some illegitimate love child of the Saladin and with the Scimitar turret…  :o ;D
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Online Mig Eater

  • Munch, Munch, Munch
    • Mig Eater Studio
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #19 on: Today at 03:36:05 AM »
Looks pretty good for an FDM print :smiley: Did you print it in several parts and put it together?

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #20 on: Today at 04:00:45 AM »
Looks pretty good for an FDM print :smiley: Did you print it in several parts and put it together?

Thanks mate.   :smiley:

It was printed in only 9 parts: the hull main body, 6 x wheels, turret and turret bustle.  Wheels definitely work better than tracks on a FDM printer…
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #21 on: Today at 06:11:12 AM »
Bravo  :smiley:
That really works well. Using the avail renders and what you have done replacing obvious bits that would be less than acceptable from a print.

Ok a maybe I am a bit sorry that I did not see an Uber scratch build emerging from an Airfix stalwart running gear however what we have looks just terrific  :smiley: :smiley:

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #22 on: Today at 04:01:17 PM »
Thanks mate.

To be honest, scratch building a vehicle that is already available in another format seems like a bit of a waste of time, resources and effort.  My FDM printer is far from perfect and perhaps, one day, I will splash out on a resin printer but, until then, it will do for quick turn-around jobs. Sacrilege?   ;)
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #23 on: Today at 06:05:46 PM »
Thanks mate.

To be honest, scratch building a vehicle that is already available in another format seems like a bit of a waste of time, resources and effort.  My FDM printer is far from perfect and perhaps, one day, I will splash out on a resin printer but, until then, it will do for quick turn-around jobs. Sacrilege?   ;)

Fully agree.. probably just getting so used to the magic you can do with some styrene and bits. I have to say that I was this (image the Max Smart this close  ;) close to getting a 3D render of the Saracen to print, when Airfix announced theirs, so as you say, why scratch when you can print.. or wait long enough for an injection kit. I have just finished the Accurate Armour 3.7" AA gun, so stay tuned for a release of that  ;D

Love your work :smiley: :smiley:

Offline Claymore

  • It's all done with smoke and mirrors!
  • Alt Hist AFV guy with a thing for Bradley turrets
Re: Saladin R
« Reply #24 on: Today at 08:14:10 PM »
Much appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing the big 3.7” AA gun - it must be an impressive piece!  :smiley:
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!