Author Topic: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations  (Read 37662 times)

Offline dy031101

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SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« on: February 18, 2012, 08:01:30 AM »
After that A-10B I was thinking what else I can put a tail gun turret on......

Something fast, but not too fast.



I was thinking of giving the tail gunner's console some ECM- and Wild-Weasel-related controls, too.

Granted, the result gives off a vibe that I don't feel completely right...... the engines might need to be moved outboard to give room for a bigger tail, for starters......
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 11:35:53 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Rafael

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 08:02:58 AM »
Genius!!! :icon_surprised:
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 01:46:33 AM »
Found this while looking for something else at ARC in the Silly Week gallery. 

ARC Silly Week 2006 - 1/72nd scale Jaguar GR.9 built by Rob Haelterman

(Image source: Rob Haelterman via ARC)
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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 03:41:00 AM »
 :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 01:45:49 PM »
Wonder how a Jaguar would do with the inlets and engines from a Tornado?

A simpler thought is a developed Jaguar-M with the Agave radar nose and the LRMTS in a neat fairing below it.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 11:56:37 AM »
Found this while looking for something else at ARC in the Silly Week gallery. 

ARC Silly Week 2006 - 1/72nd scale Jaguar GR.9 built by Rob Haelterman

(Image source: Rob Haelterman via ARC)


I like it!!!

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2012, 03:54:47 PM »
What about a dedicated recon version in the same mood as the RF-4 or RF-5 with dedicated camera nose etc.  call it a Jaguar PR.1 or FR.1.
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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 03:10:12 AM »
Kiwi with the Agave nose.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 05:10:37 AM »
My question re the Jaguar: Other than loading problems, what were the downsides of its overwing rails that resulted in nothing else using them? Seems like a quick way to add extra hardpoints to a Tomcat or an air-superiority F-15...

Offline elmayerle

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 10:16:32 AM »
My question re the Jaguar: Other than loading problems, what were the downsides of its overwing rails that resulted in nothing else using them? Seems like a quick way to add extra hardpoints to a Tomcat or an air-superiority F-15...
Well, unless the design is stressed for those from the beginning, the change in airflow over the top of the wing makes for altered airloads and changes the stresses on structure.  This won't hurt you short term, but it definitely can shorten aircraft life.  On the other hand, if you put them above existing pylons where you've already got beefier structure and perhaps upgrade that a tad, it might be doable after all.

I'd love to see a combo of the best of the Jaguar and Mitsubishi F-1, perhaps with the addition of the Agave radar and underslung LRMTS asn well as wingtip Sidewinders or equivalents as well as over-the-wing rails.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 12:00:24 PM by elmayerle »

Offline scorchio

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 04:35:57 AM »
Kiwi with the Agave nose.

It has the 'Jaguar M' carrier landing gear and intake splitter from my previous naval profiles, but I suppose it's alright for demonstrating the idea:



Purchased in parallel to, or from retiring RAN stocks perhaps? :D

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 05:35:38 AM »
Thank you thats great!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 12:03:00 PM »
How about with a chin LRMTS or other optronic system in a ventral fairing just aft of the radome as was posited for some Agave-equipped versions?  For a late-upgrade to such, use the guts of a Sniper pod or fair that into the forward fuselage.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 12:17:31 PM »
I'd love to see a combo of the best of the Jaguar and Mitsubishi F-1, perhaps with the addition of the Agave radar and underslung LRMTS asn well as wingtip Sidewinders or equivalents as well as over-the-wing rails.


You mean, rather like this one;)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 12:29:28 PM »
I'd love to see a combo of the best of the Jaguar and Mitsubishi F-1, perhaps with the addition of the Agave radar and underslung LRMTS asn well as wingtip Sidewinders or equivalents as well as over-the-wing rails.


You mean, rather like this one;)

Well, yeah, that'll do for starters. ;)

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 09:44:09 AM »
Jaguar with canards!
The canards are cut-up horizontal tailplanes on both.
The main wing on the upper one is a Jaguar wing with an increased chord. The main wing on the lower one has a higher sweep angle on the leading edge. Both main wings should easily accept wingtip rails.



They look rather Gripen-ish, don't they?
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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 09:50:25 AM »
Very nice idea Moritz.  Looks like a simple enough modification to make it so. 
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 09:50:44 AM »
Jaguar with canards!
The canards are cut-up horizontal tailplanes on both.
The main wing on the upper one is a Jaguar wing with an increased chord. The main wing on the lower one has a higher sweep angle on the leading edge. Both main wings should easily accept wingtip rails.



They look rather Gripen-ish, don't they?

Could actually see that being built as a technology demonstrator

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2013, 10:04:05 AM »
A friend of mine was in Jaguars with the French Air Force in the mid 1980s.   And he's a modeler.  I know he wanted a better terrain following radar than what was availed them.   The British radar was better in that regard.   Maybe a Jaguar A should be so outfitted and stationed at Abeche, 1986.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 11:12:15 AM »
Perhaps the Belgians, Greeks, or  Finns need Jags at one point or another.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 12:16:38 PM »
A friend of mine was in Jaguars with the French Air Force in the mid 1980s.   And he's a modeler.  I know he wanted a better terrain following radar than what was availed them.   The British radar was better in that regard.   Maybe a Jaguar A should be so outfitted and stationed at Abeche, 1986.

No Jaguar ever had a terrain following radar. The difference between the French and British Jags was that the French ones had a simple, basic nav/attack system with radar ranging, while the RAF ones had a sophisticated intertial nav/attack set and a laser rangefinder/marked target seeker. Essentially, the AdA wanted a cheap fighter-bomber while the RAF wanted as much of a mini-TSR.2 as they could get. There just wasn't room for late-1960s TFR in it though.

What would have been possible was a mid-'80s upgrade using the small radar nose with 1980s standard TFR fitted instead of Agave, and the LRMTS moved to a chin fairing. However there's more to terrain following than just the radar: without all the black boxes to let the autopilot fly the aircraft on the basis of the TFR's inputs, it would just be terrain avoidance radar, rather than true TFR.
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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2013, 12:51:06 PM »
Perhaps the Belgians, Greeks, or  Finns need Jags at one point or another.

I like your thinking.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2013, 01:04:23 PM »
A friend of mine was in Jaguars with the French Air Force in the mid 1980s.   And he's a modeler.  I know he wanted a better terrain following radar than what was availed them.   The British radar was better in that regard.   Maybe a Jaguar A should be so outfitted and stationed at Abeche, 1986.

No Jaguar ever had a terrain following radar. The difference between the French and British Jags was that the French ones had a simple, basic nav/attack system with radar ranging, while the RAF ones had a sophisticated intertial nav/attack set and a laser rangefinder/marked target seeker. Essentially, the AdA wanted a cheap fighter-bomber while the RAF wanted as much of a mini-TSR.2 as they could get. There just wasn't room for late-1960s TFR in it though.

What would have been possible was a mid-'80s upgrade using the small radar nose with 1980s standard TFR fitted instead of Agave, and the LRMTS moved to a chin fairing. However there's more to terrain following than just the radar: without all the black boxes to let the autopilot fly the aircraft on the basis of the TFR's inputs, it would just be terrain avoidance radar, rather than true TFR.
Radar nose contours with a smaller radome for the TFR radar and room for the necessary black boxes to interface with the autopilot.  Alternatively, the full radar nose and the reduced-size antenna AN/APG-65 from the AV-8B+?  Definitely add the LRMTS, or something more capable in either a chin fairing or a fairing for the FLIR like that fitted to the AV-8B+.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2013, 01:49:36 PM »
Yes..i think you're right.   What he was noting was that past a certain degree of bank, they would lose their indication how high off the ground they were.  Whatever system the RAF was better.  It's been 15-20 years since that discussion so I'm at best foggy.

So if Canada were to have gotten the Jaguar, would it have been the A model in the east and the GR in the West?  ;D

As to the RAF hunger for a mini-TSR, I had no idea being generally oblivious to the type.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 02:01:24 PM by Daryl J. »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: SEPECAT Jaguar What-if and Inspirations
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2013, 02:03:16 PM »
I could see Canada buying the GR and then the Agave version for coastal defence.  I could also see an Agave-, or Blue Vixen-,fitted Jaguar-M with improved engines for carrier operations.

Odd weapons-change thought, replace the two DEFA or ADEN cannon with a Vulcan installation like that in the Mitsubishi F-1/T-2.

Also thought for an interesting combining, T-2CCV with Jaguar-Active, either as a R&D aircraft or as the basis for a really nasty single-seater to tangle with.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 02:05:48 PM by elmayerle »