F-86 Sabre and Derivatives

[elmayerle]

ISTR that the NAA proposal was more for an executive (obviously a valuable one) transport.

[kitnut617]

Thanks Evan --- 

I remembered I have an Air Model TF-86 conversion too, which is just the forward fuselage from the nose to the rear of the extended cockpit, might be a better option as I would have to taper the rear fuselage to a point anyway and seems a waste of a good vacuform to use the complete fuselage Falcon set.

[GTX_Admin]

One could also cannibalise a Saberliner kit here.

[GTX_Admin]

Interesting tidbit:  in the early '50s there was a push by CAC for licensed production of the CAC Avon Sabre in Italy.  eventually the Italians went for the Canadair CL-13 Sabre Mk.4 instead.

[M.A.D]

Interesting tidbit:  int he early '50s there was a push by CAC for licensed production of the CAC Avon Sabre in Italy.  eventually the Italians went for the Canadair CL-13 Sabre Mk.4 instead.

Tell me more GTX!😯🤔
If not here, then please PM me 😉


MAD

[GTX_Admin]

There's not a lot of info but it appears that interest was in mid 1953 and was related to Italian interest in locally producing the Sabre.  They were not interested in the J47 version and where interested in the Avon engined version.  It appress that interest was shown by the Italians and an enquiry made regarding technical details but that they were told that this had to be done at the Govt-to-Govt level and then it seemed to break down. 

There was also some interest from both Canada and the UK in procuring Avon Sabres - alas the Canadians went on to produce their own, more conventional Sabre and also provided them for the RAF and others...

Likewise the Indian Air Force also expressed some interest in 1954.  The Indians apparently initially wanted to go direct to NAA but because NAA was focussed upon the F-100 they redirected the Indians to CAC.  The Indian High Commissioner to Australia even visited CAC a number of times but then in the end of 1954 it all stopped with the Indians eventually getting Hawker Hunters instead.

[jcf]

There's not a lot of info but it appears that interest was in mid 1953 and was related to Italian interest in locally producing the Sabre.  They were not interested in the J47 version and where interested in the Avon engined version.

Seems odd as on 16 May 1953 an agreement was reached setting up Fiat license production
of the J47 engined F-86K.

[GTX_Admin]

There's not a lot of info but it appears that interest was in mid 1953 and was related to Italian interest in locally producing the Sabre.  They were not interested in the J47 version and where interested in the Avon engined version.

Seems odd as on 16 May 1953 an agreement was reached setting up Fiat license production
of the J47 engined F-86K.

It was in the lead up to and then in the aftermath of that.  I suspect the Italians were looking at multiple options and possibly getting info from all around including from NAA.

[GTX_Admin]

Some further interesting tidbits - all coming from here: 



Further CAC Avon Sabre developments investigated:

• Fitment of RR Avon RA-14 engine of 9,500 lbf (42.26 kN) vs normal RA-26 version of 7,500 lbf (33 kN) thrust
• Fitment of 4 x 30mm cannon instead of 2 x 30mm cannon
• Fitment of Napier NRE17 external rocket engine which provided 2,250 lbs thrust
• Fitment of in-flight refuelling with two drop tanks (one of 100 gal and one of 166 gal) per side with the larger tanks having refuelling probes thus necessitating 2 contacts to refuel completely.  This was potentially to be used in conjunction with a EE Canberra tanker

[ysi_maniac]

^^^^^
What is the plane illustrated in dust cover of that book?

[Old Wombat]

CAC CA-4 / CAC CA-11 Woomera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_Woomera

[GTX_Admin]

CA-11 to be precise.  Here's a bigger image - it was painted by the author, Keith:



CFBV

[GTX_Admin]

CFBV

[M.A.D]

There's not a lot of info but it appears that interest was in mid 1953 and was related to Italian interest in locally producing the Sabre.  They were not interested in the J47 version and where interested in the Avon engined version.  It appress that interest was shown by the Italians and an enquiry made regarding technical details but that they were told that this had to be done at the Govt-to-Govt level and then it seemed to break down. 

There was also some interest from both Canada and the UK in procuring Avon Sabres - alas the Canadians went on to produce their own, more conventional Sabre and also provided them for the RAF and others...

Likewise the Indian Air Force also expressed some interest in 1954.  The Indians apparently initially wanted to go direct to NAA but because NAA was focussed upon the F-100 they redirected the Indians to CAC.  The Indian High Commissioner to Australia even visited CAC a number of times but then in the end of 1954 it all stopped with the Indians eventually getting Hawker Hunters instead.

Thank you Greg, that is intreging!🤔

MAD

[GTX_Admin]

More details

[ysi_maniac]

Spanish Sabre in Vietnam.

[GTX_Admin]

 

[elmayerle]

Wanting a faster night/all-weather interceptor prior to the Javelin becoming operational, the RF works with Fiat and Canadair to produce the Sabre NF.11.  Based on the F-86K but with an aftrburning Orenda engine and with two, or perhaps four, ADEN cannons replacing the four 20mm cannons on the F-86K.

[M.A.D]

Nice find GTX!

I'm liking the sound of the idea of 'interim Canberra tanker', especially with the Canberra's being replaced with F-111 (alas ten years later than originally planned), as the Canberra's, going by other same era Canberra's, had plenty of flight time left in them.
Fuel, hose and pump arrangement in the bomb bay, transferable fuel in drop tanks under the wings....

The Airfix accessory kit that provides the tanker parts plus the reconnaissance panel for the Valiant might be quick source for your Canberra tanker parts in 1:72nd scale or if you don't mind the slight difference in size, it could work for a 1:48th scale Canberra tanker.

A very belated thanks Jeffry Fontaine

MAD

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Nice find GTX!

I'm liking the sound of the idea of 'interim Canberra tanker', especially with the Canberra's being replaced with F-111 (alas ten years later than originally planned), as the Canberra's, going by other same era Canberra's, had plenty of flight time left in them.
Fuel, hose and pump arrangement in the bomb bay, transferable fuel in drop tanks under the wings....

The Airfix accessory kit that provides the tanker parts plus the reconnaissance panel for the Valiant might be quick source for your Canberra tanker parts in 1:72nd scale or if you don't mind the slight difference in size, it could work for a 1:48th scale Canberra tanker.

A very belated thanks Jeffry Fontaine

MAD

Good luck finding the Valiant accessory kit.  It was a rather short-lived product and I am not sure the new Valiant kit has all of the parts included. 

[ysi_maniac]

Fiat G.91 structure is inspired by F-86 but Gina's nose is IMO just perfect

[GTX_Admin]

[finsrin]

Super duper picture 

[elmayerle]

With the development of the APKWS II development of the 75mm rockets, useful for Air to Air action against drones et al., how about retrieving F-86D/L airframes from AMARC, fitting updated radar and engines, and fitting their deployable FFAR pods with the APKWS II to expand the available air cover in the Middle East and elsewhere.  Not really practical, I know, due to how long those airframes will have been sitting in the desert, but imagine this upgrade is Israeli markings, for starter.