Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: ysi_maniac on June 05, 2016, 04:46:29 PM

Title: Winged helicopters
Post by: ysi_maniac on June 05, 2016, 04:46:29 PM
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/wessex-corsair-1.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/wessex-corsair-1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Old Wombat on June 05, 2016, 10:49:33 PM
Just curious ... Have you taken your medication today? ???




 ;)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 02:30:42 AM
I'd love someone to release a kit or conversion of this in 1/48:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Sikorsky_X-wing_diagonal_view.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 02:39:58 AM
Let's not forget the winged Chinook:

(http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Boeing-347-2.jpg)

More photos and details here (https://travelforaircraft.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/winged-chinook-write/)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 02:43:18 AM
More:

(http://www.aviationweek.com/Portals/AWeek/Ares/GrahamW/Piasecki%20JMR-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Kerick on June 06, 2016, 03:00:33 AM
I'd love someone to release a kit or conversion of this in 1/48:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Sikorsky_X-wing_diagonal_view.jpg)


Here's what I built after seeing the above pic.

(http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt322/kerick214/Super%20Blackhawk/100_1373_zps1b32e21f.jpg) (http://s624.photobucket.com/user/kerick214/media/Super%20Blackhawk/100_1373_zps1b32e21f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 03:06:55 AM
Wicked! :)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 03:07:08 AM
Another:

(http://www.combatreform.org/s61wings.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 03:10:22 AM
And let's not forget the products of Mother Russia:

(http://www.aviastar.org/foto/ka-22.jpg)
(http://www.aviastar.org/foto/ka-22.gif)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2016, 03:12:02 AM
Another:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Sikorsky_S-67_bw_lo-res.jpg)(http://www.aviastar.org/foto/sik_s-67_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Weaver on June 06, 2016, 04:05:53 AM
SA 349 winged Gazelle. Did a lot of research on winged helos in the early 1970s:

(http://www.irishairpics.com/images/iap_fullsize_images/1023060.jpg)

(http://www.helico-fascination.com/IMG/jpg/Le_SA_349-2_en_1981_Marignane_ph._D._Liron.jpg)

(http://www.helico-fascination.com/IMG/jpg/le_SA_349_Z_001_F-ZWRF_en_vol.ph._Aerospatiale.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Weaver on June 06, 2016, 04:41:15 AM
Saunders-Roe Rotorcoach project:

(http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/users/user675/Saunders-Roe_Rotorroach-01.JPG)

(http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/users/user675/Saunders-Roe_Rotorroach-02.JPG)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: KiwiZac on June 06, 2016, 11:33:44 AM
That winged Gazelle is gorgeous! I love it!
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 07, 2016, 03:21:11 AM
It should be quite build able too.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Weaver on June 07, 2016, 10:43:23 AM
As Dizzyfugu pointed out on the corresponding thread on WIM, the Mil Mi-6 Hook was a winged helicopter that entered widespread service:

(http://www.avionslegendaires.net/wp-content/uploads/images/avion_militaire/Gmi6-2.jpg)

I have a feeling that wings are generally more use on big helos than small ones. The conclusion of the Gazelle test team was that the weight penalty of the wings in the hover wasn't worth the benefit in cruising flight. Now obviously that depends on the mass of the helicopter and the typical mission profile. If the wings are a significant fraction of the payload mass and the mission involves multiple take-offs, landings and hovers with short cruise stages in between (as you might expect from a Gazelle) then their conclusion makes sense. On the other hand, if the helo is big enough to have a useful payload in spite of the mass of the wings, and if it typically travels a long distance in between one take-off and one landing, then the benefit of the wings is maximised and their penalty minimised.

Here's another one that flew:

(http://www.kaman.com/sites/default/files/styles/history-field_history_year_image/public/1967_UH-2.jpg?itok=sodBEKhA)

Kaman UH-2A (single-engined) Seasprite fitted with Beech Queen Air wings and a single YJ-85 turbojet on the starboard side in 1964. I presume that the asymetric thrust of the jet unloaded the tail rotor in the same way that the lift of the wings unloaded the main rotor.

From here: http://www.kaman.com/our-company/history-of-innovation (http://www.kaman.com/our-company/history-of-innovation)

Off topic, but something else I didn't know from that page: Charles Kaman invented the Ovation guitar (the accoustic with a rounded composite back)!
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: upnorth on June 08, 2016, 01:02:25 PM
Well, we can't very well have a "Winged Helicopter" thread without one of these.  :-*

(http://i.imgur.com/eZK3H8v.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 09, 2016, 05:12:02 AM
I suppose the question is whether stub wings used to carry stores (vs wings used simply for their lifting capability) qualify.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: elmayerle on June 09, 2016, 06:09:40 AM
And let's not forget the products of Mother Russia:

([url]http://www.aviastar.org/foto/ka-22.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.aviastar.org/foto/ka-22.gif[/url])

Instead of separate propellers and rotors, imagine it with rotating transmissions and prop-rotors.  Model in 1/72 using 1/48 V-22 prop-rotors?
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Weaver on June 09, 2016, 03:22:56 PM
I suppose the question is whether stub wings used to carry stores (vs wings used simply for their lifting capability) qualify.

Well since most of the stub wings (as opposed to simple weapon beams) are lift-generating aerofoils, they probably should qualify, even if their contribution is small.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: taiidantomcat on June 10, 2016, 02:08:00 AM
I suppose the question is whether stub wings used to carry stores (vs wings used simply for their lifting capability) qualify.

I had read that the hinds wings do contribute to its lift. It was from a cold war era book, but I think it's legit
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 10, 2016, 03:35:28 AM
Small photo of early VM-6 concept for what became the Mi-6 in compound form with detachable wings/turboprops for
high-speed flight.

(http://aviastar.org/foto/gallery/mil/mi-6_2.jpg)

BTW on the fire-fighting version of the Mi-6 the wings were removed to improve performance in hover, and
rolling takeoffs were standard for the regular winged Mi-6. This is not because of the weight of the wings,
rather it is an issue of area under the rotor disc, fuselage area alone reduces rotor lift efficiency, any flat
plate like a wing degrades it further.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Weaver on June 10, 2016, 03:49:02 AM
BTW on the fire-fighting version of the Mi-6 the wings were removed to improve performance in hover, and
rolling takeoffs were standard for the regular winged Mi-6. This is not because of the weight of the wings, rather it is an issue of area under the rotor disc, fuselage area alone reduces rotor lift efficiency, any flat plate like a wing degrades it further.

Yep: sure I've seen proposals, and maybe even a flying prototype of a helicopter with variable incidence wings that could pivot up to 90 deg for hovering.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 10, 2016, 05:12:39 AM
You were saying...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgAciVIWQAATjsW.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 10, 2016, 05:21:36 AM
Modern incarnation:

(http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/tech/2010/09/28/eurocopter-unveils-revolutionary-winged-helicopter/_jcr_content/par/featured-media/media-1.img.jpg/876/493/1421955600314.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/0/1/1938108.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 10, 2016, 05:24:18 AM
Another classic:

(http://www.aviastar.org/foto/gallery/lockheed/lok_cheyenne_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 10, 2016, 06:08:29 AM
Another bit of Mi-6 trivia, the wings were first fitted to the second prototype and they were of
vartiable incidence with different settings for cruise and autorotation. The variable incidence feature
was deemed unnecessary and the wings are of fixed incidence on production machines, 14º 15' port
and 15º45' stbd. The wings off-load the rotor in cruise up to 25% of all-up weight.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 10, 2016, 06:30:30 AM
Speaking of the second Mi-6 prototype, get a load of those spats! 

(http://www.krasnayazvezda.com/air/appareils/helico/mi6/5.jpg)
(http://www.krasnayazvezda.com/air/appareils/helico/mi6/4.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 10, 2016, 06:37:32 AM
According to Red Star Vol.22 Mil's Heavylift Helicopters at least the first 120 Rostov built machines
had the spats.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 10, 2016, 06:47:24 AM
According to Red Star Vol.22 Mil's Heavylift Helicopters at least the first 120 Rostov built machines
had the spats.

What they don't tell you is that the rest would have had spats except someone kept stealing them...Brian... ::)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: Weaver on June 10, 2016, 08:03:17 AM
The VEB Plasticart Mi-6 model has the spats.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 10, 2016, 10:15:59 AM
Model of one of the early concepts for the Mil V-12:
(http://www.aviastar.org/foto/gallery/mil/v-12_3.jpg)

Of course this is what was built:
(http://www.aviastar.org/foto/gallery/mil/v-12_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 10, 2016, 10:20:37 AM
Westland proposal:
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/WESTLAND_WG17D_01.png)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 10, 2016, 10:22:12 AM
Wing Ding

http://www.vtol.org/qr/march-2012 (http://www.vtol.org/qr/march-2012)

(http://www.vtol.org/images/dmImage/SourceImage/AHS-2012-Calendar_03.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 11, 2016, 03:23:07 AM
Another:

(http://aviationweek.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/30/h60.gif)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: kitnut617 on June 11, 2016, 03:44:33 AM
Wing Ding


What was the story behind that Jon ? The wings seem quite big for a helicopter like the Bell 47
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 11, 2016, 04:12:24 AM
Wing Ding


What was the story behind that Jon ? The wings seem quite big for a helicopter like the Bell 47

Click the link in the post.  ;)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: kitnut617 on June 11, 2016, 05:09:29 AM
Wing Ding


What was the story behind that Jon ? The wings seem quite big for a helicopter like the Bell 47

Click the link in the post.  ;)

D'oh!   :-[    missed the link while looking at the pics    ;D
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 11, 2016, 05:30:46 AM
Bristol Type 73 with wings.

(http://www.vtol.org/images/dmImage/SourceImage/AHS-2012-Calendar_01.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: jcf on June 11, 2016, 05:34:57 AM
Bell 207 Sioux Scout

(https://vtol.org/images/dmImage/SourceImage/0%20Cover%202013.jpg)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: kitnut617 on June 11, 2016, 08:29:38 AM
Oh yeah!  and Unicraft is doing a kit of it in 1/72 scale   ---- scroll down a bit on the left side

http://unicraft.biz/ (http://unicraft.biz/)
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 12, 2016, 02:56:22 AM
Oh yeah!  and Unicraft is doing a kit of it in 1/72 scale   ---- scroll down a bit on the left side

[url]http://unicraft.biz/[/url] ([url]http://unicraft.biz/[/url])


Unfortunately, given previous unicraft efforts. I would expect the kit to look nothing like the real product and also to be of questionable build ability.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: elmayerle on June 12, 2016, 03:07:07 AM
Wing Ding

[url]http://www.vtol.org/qr/march-2012[/url] ([url]http://www.vtol.org/qr/march-2012[/url])

([url]http://www.vtol.org/images/dmImage/SourceImage/AHS-2012-Calendar_03.jpg[/url])

Looks better than the only other winged Model 47, the one converted to be the "Bat-copter" from the 1966-ish Batman movie.
Title: Re: Winged helicopters
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 12, 2016, 04:36:18 AM
I really like the Bristol