Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on May 15, 2016, 06:21:45 AM

Title: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 15, 2016, 06:21:45 AM
Hi folks,

A place for your CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration.

(http://www.australianbuiltaircraft.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CA-11-painting3.jpg)
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 15, 2016, 06:26:58 AM
To begin with, some photos:

(http://www.airpages.ru/ot/raaf_66.jpg)

I have always loved the rugged look the twin wheel main undercarriage has.

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RobertoR_2006/Publicadas/CA-4_1.jpg)

The twin barrette guns on each nacelle were interesting too:

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RobertoR_2006/Publicadas/CA-4_112.jpg)(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RobertoR_2006/Publicadas/CA-4_113.jpg)
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on May 15, 2016, 09:05:03 AM
I wonder how those nacelle barbettes compare in effectiveness and reliability with the ones the Italians used on the Piaggio P-108?  These are the only two aircraft I know of with such a fit.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: KiwiZac on May 16, 2016, 08:04:24 AM
Oh how I've longed for the day such a thread is possible!!!  8)

No pics but my own 1/72 project is a Kiwi one - feel free to use my backstory as inspiration for a build: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5000.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5000.0)
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on May 16, 2016, 08:14:43 AM
A Beaufighter, an Avenger and a Los had a wild weekend and the Woomera was the result.
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/pzl37/pzl37-2.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Kerick on May 16, 2016, 09:48:20 AM
Very interesting design. With the guns in the engine nacelles it something of a hold over from the turret fighter.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 17, 2016, 02:30:53 AM
I am toying with the idea of making my new 1/48 one a post war target towing tug akin to this:

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/296/pics/81_2_b1.jpg)
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on May 17, 2016, 08:17:57 AM
Interesting aircraft, I wouldn't mind getting hold of one in 1/72 scale.  My 'Big Book' says three companies have produced it in 1/72 too, just need to find one. Companies are KPL, Master Models and NKR Models, first one is a USA company (vacuform) and the other two are Czech (resin)
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on May 17, 2016, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on May 17, 2016, 08:17:57 AM
Interesting aircraft, I wouldn't mind getting hold of one in 1/72 scale.  My 'Big Book' says three companies have produced it in 1/72 too, just need to find one. Companies are KPL, Master Models and NKR Models, first one is a USA company (vacuform) and the other two are Czech (resin)
Good luck on that, I believe the first and third have been OOP for some time now.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on May 17, 2016, 06:26:21 PM
My usual 2c worth, why not a carrier based torpedo bomber/attack version?

It would of course fly off the RANs modified Ark Royal that I swear I will get around to building one day and serve post war as an alternative to the failed Short Sturgeon.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2016, 02:49:58 AM
How about an anti-tank (or anti-ship) version armed with BFG?
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on May 18, 2016, 04:37:12 AM
Quote from: Volkodav on May 17, 2016, 06:26:21 PM
My usual 2c worth, why not a carrier based torpedo bomber/attack version?

It would of course fly off the RANs modified Ark Royal that I swear I will get around to building one day and serve post war as an alternative to the failed Short Sturgeon.

Failed Short Sturgeon? By what metric do you declare the Sturgeon a failure?
It was never procured in its original attack-recce role as the carriers it was intended for were canceled because
the war was over. The TT versions performed the role well until superceded by changes in technology that made
them unnecessary. The turbo-prop SB.3 lost out to the Gannet for a number of reasons, however, that doesn't
mean the base design was a failure.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: TurboCoupeTurbo on May 18, 2016, 07:24:36 AM
Quote from: jcf on May 18, 2016, 04:37:12 AM


Failed Short Sturgeon? By what metric do you declare the Sturgeon a failure?


A beauty contest  ;D
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on May 18, 2016, 10:12:58 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupeTurbo on May 18, 2016, 07:24:36 AM
Quote from: jcf on May 18, 2016, 04:37:12 AM


Failed Short Sturgeon? By what metric do you declare the Sturgeon a failure?



A beauty contest  ;D


Really? The first two, RK787 and RK791, and the TT.3 prototype look pretty good to me.

(http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211838&d=1359470118)
RK791 in race colours in 1949.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1949/1949%20-%201387.html (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1949/1949%20-%201387.html)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Short_Sturgeon_TT3_prototype.jpg)
TT 3 prototype
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: TurboCoupeTurbo on May 18, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder some times... 

 :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer:

(https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Ma71d0ae2a31bcc29e3ddfb22ce7c63a2o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300)

Nope, still fugly.

 :icon_beer: :icon_beer:
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on May 18, 2016, 11:43:08 AM
It could still hold its own against the Gannet, at least in a beauty contest.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on May 18, 2016, 12:42:31 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupeTurbo on May 18, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder some times... 

 :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer:

(https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Ma71d0ae2a31bcc29e3ddfb22ce7c63a2o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300)

Nope, still fugly.

 :icon_beer: :icon_beer:

Funny how the TT.2 version operated for years but people seem to think the single flying (only two were constructed) SB.3 is
the exemplar of the type.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: TurboCoupeTurbo on May 18, 2016, 01:14:02 PM
I don't really think any of the versions were all that good looking with the stubby nose and weird hunchback over a narrow and deep fuselage. 
It looks like 5 year old badly traced all a picture of a Sea Hornet.

The SB.3 is just the shining example of its ugly, when the 5 year old sneezed while drawing it.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on May 18, 2016, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2016, 02:49:58 AM
How about an anti-tank (or anti-ship) version armed with BFG?

17pdr Molins gun?
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on May 18, 2016, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: jcf on May 18, 2016, 04:37:12 AM
Quote from: Volkodav on May 17, 2016, 06:26:21 PM
My usual 2c worth, why not a carrier based torpedo bomber/attack version?

It would of course fly off the RANs modified Ark Royal that I swear I will get around to building one day and serve post war as an alternative to the failed Short Sturgeon.

Failed Short Sturgeon? By what metric do you declare the Sturgeon a failure?
It was never procured in its original attack-recce role as the carriers it was intended for were canceled because
the war was over. The TT versions performed the role well until superceded by changes in technology that made
them unnecessary. The turbo-prop SB.3 lost out to the Gannet for a number of reasons, however, that doesn't
mean the base design was a failure.

Exactly, it was never procured as an attack/recce due to being overtaken by events, therefore it failed.  The same could be said of a lot of designs, great and not so great.  The Sturgeon didn't fly unto June 1946 while the CA-4 flew in September 41 and the CA-11 in June 44 so could have entered service before the war ended (had it not been cancelled, thereby meaning it is, by my definition, also a failure).

In fact the reason the Woomera was cancelled was the RAAF was operating the B-24 and Beaufighter and just didn't need them anymore.  Perhaps this could have been the spur for CAC to redesign it as a carrier based attack bomber that the RN could have been interested in as an interim for the BPF (they would of course have needed larger carriers, such as my notional Ark Royal based light fleet carrier). 
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 19, 2016, 03:09:00 AM
Hmmm...carrier (or land) based Woomera AEW in similar vein to AEW Avenger:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJPIAR8APdWCYDCXRAnSTJ97A64ku3lLvy_5xf7Nc8QF2GOLYlqA)
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on May 19, 2016, 03:54:22 AM
thatz a way back Avenger photo.  Remember seeing it in books in the 50s.
Another one of those flash back moments !
Forgotten version of Avenger that didn't get much (if any) press.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on May 19, 2016, 07:34:35 AM
Without taking this too much further off topic, when I was a kid I spent hours browsing through my Dad's set of Aircraft of the Fighting Powers (all mine now), the Sturgeon was one of my favorites. Loved the contra-props --- and probably why I go for anything with contra-props to this day.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 20, 2016, 02:18:19 AM
Quote from: Volkodav on May 18, 2016, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2016, 02:49:58 AM
How about an anti-tank (or anti-ship) version armed with BFG?

17pdr Molins gun?

Maybe...or something more local.
Title: Re: CAC CA-4/CA-11 Woomera Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: KiwiZac on May 20, 2016, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: elmayerle on May 17, 2016, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on May 17, 2016, 08:17:57 AM
Interesting aircraft, I wouldn't mind getting hold of one in 1/72 scale.  My 'Big Book' says three companies have produced it in 1/72 too, just need to find one. Companies are KPL, Master Models and NKR Models, first one is a USA company (vacuform) and the other two are Czech (resin)

Good luck on that, I believe the first and third have been OOP for some time now.

I got the KPL kit off eBay for less than US$30 posted after missing out on one for $50, it's rough but buildable and the instructions say 1983 or so. If you get one make sure you've stocked up on spares and be prepared for fragile and cloudy clear bits! My stalled-but-on-the-comeback WIP as an RNZAF example is here (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4977.0;all).

I may be mistaken but I thought NKR was an Australian company? Greg? That kit goes for three figures when it surfaces (missed one by hours on AMI for I think A$120), although by all accounts you're better off scratching it. Never seen much of the Master Models kit.