Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Group and Themed Builds => Upgrades and Life Extensions GB => Topic started by: Claymore on April 12, 2026, 08:00:43 PM
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Regarding the new GB, I have a couple of builds in mind and, if time permits, I may give both a go. However, to start things off I came across this nugget recently and thought it might fit the bill nicely and not detract too much from other overdue projects.
Not wanting to waste too much time in setting the scene, I will, for brevity, quote directly from the excellent work done by the folks at tanks-encyclopaedia.com.
Saladin R
The Saladin R is an often overlooked part of the FV601’s history. Essentially, it was a private venture by Alvis to create a new vehicle for the export market. The Saladin R consisted of the standard Saladin hull, equipped with a newer CVR(T)-style turret and armed with the RARDEN (Royal Armament, Research and Development Establishment, ENfield) auto-cannon – hence Saladin RARDEN or ‘R’. Saladin was already an incredible export success for Alvis, but with the R, they were really trying to target the Middle East, specifically Kuwait.
Placed atop the unchanged hull, the new turret was a slightly modified version of that found on the FV107 Scimitar CVR(T) [My note: As you can see from the images below, the turret in question was more likely that of, or based upon, the turret from the FV721 Fox CVR(W) rather than the FV107 Scimitar - likely a result of not wanting to disrupt the CVR(T) production lines and/or the availability of turrets following the less than successful introduction of the Fox]. It was an all-aluminum construction, and carried the 30 mm RARDEN automatic cannon, as well as a coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun. The RARDEN was compatible with Hispano-Suiza 831L rounds, of which 189 would be provided. Ammunition was pre-loaded in 3-round clips, with various types available, such as high-explosive incendiary (HE-I), armor-piercing high-explosive (APHE) and even armor-piercing discarding sabot (APDS), to name but a few. Two men operated the turret, which was all-manual in control, including gun elevation, which was -10° to +40°. While not equipped to face heavy armor, the gun was best suited to a support role, being used against soft-skinned vehicles, infantry or helicopters. In the production brochure for the R, Alvis listed the targeted roles for the vehicle. These included reconnaissance, advance to combat, battle reporting, delaying actions and anti-helicopter fire.
Despite being a relatively easy conversion, no orders for the vehicle were ever placed by either the British Army or prospective foreign customers. As it was not designed under a British Military request, it also never received a Fighting Vehicle or ‘FV’ number. It is not known whether any vehicles were built. Alvis may very well have produced mock-ups of the vehicle to show off – as they were known to do – but nothing short of art-work has been found for this particular Saladin variant.
(https://i.imgur.com/eUo8xdH.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Os61o6F.jpeg)
So, what if the British Army had decided to order the Saladin R?
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Interesting idea, the slim turret makes the Saladin look a lot more modern and sporty compared to the original boxy turret.
Do you plan to use the 1/35 Dragon kit as the base? Airfix have released a kit of Stalwart and announced a Saracen kit, I'd expect a Saladin isn't that far off too, but to late for this GB.
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Sadly, the Dragon kit is a bit like Unicorn poop - either unavailable or needlessly expensive when it does pop up. :(
I do have an old Tamiya Saladin kit languishing in my pile of broken and discarded builds but since there is hardly a single scale dimension that is correct on that antique, I will be leaving it well alone. ;)
So where does that leave me? Not sure, but, as Baldrick would say, I have a cunning plan…
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(https://c.tenor.com/AFqTVUKq4WMAAAAC/popcorn-entertaining.gif)
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I have a cunning plan…
Are you going to amaze us with your scratch building skills again :D
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I should be a bit miffed as I picked up a dragon Saladin recently in Japan to do exactly this ;D
It has sat on the back burner waiting until a suitable Scimitar kit popped up somewhere, being too cheap to pay retail.
Please proceed I want to see where you take this :smiley:
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You are lucky being able to get the Dragon kit from source while I have to deal in Unicorn poop! ;D
It is odd that the records state a slightly modified FV107 Scimitar turret when all of the available company images clearly show what appears to be a FV721 Fox/Sabre turret - similar but definitely not the same…
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Here is a tester I did when I got my first Saladin. Just a turret swap from existing models to see how it looked.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t527yp1evzyzizo4u21p6/saladion.JPG?rlkey=k113l8oauc8cfk6eu41qd2ze7&st=hiy99124&raw=1)
I do have the Accurate Armour Fox on the shelf as well, so there is the turret source, albeit it would bust up my Brit AFV collection a bit.
Again, really interested how you proceed with this
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Needs something like a MILAN ATGW on top of the turret or perhaps a pair of Swingfire missiles in box launchers to the side/rear.
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Ferret Mk.5 turret . . .
cheers ,
Robin .
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All very interesting stuff I’m sure my good fellows, but I will be building the Saladin R as per my initial premise and the attached imagery - just as Alvis intended. ;) :smiley:
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All very interesting stuff I’m sure my good fellows, but I will be building the Saladin R as per my initial premise and the attached imagery - just as Alvis intended. ;) :smiley:
As you should :smiley:
Eagerly awaiting the starting point you choose since the two "out there" options seem off the table. I am hoping, to see a bit magic happen, perhaps on an recent Airfix offering perchance ?
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So, the Saladin R turret issue (Scimitar-like v Fox) is solved. When the contract for the production run for the new FV721 Fox CVR(W) was being put to tender, it was more of less assumed that it would go to the Leyland Group, which comprised Jaguar/Daimler and Alvis. The design was theirs and they had produced the initial prototypes. Indeed, the contract for Alvis to mass produce the new turret had already been awarded - their design was loosely based on the Scimitar turret with a common weapon (30mm RARDEN) and sighting systems but in a new bulged square turret rather than the Scimitar's octagonal shape. At the same time as Jaguar/Daimler were submitting their tender for production of the hull, the Royal Ordinance Factory (ROF) in Leeds also submitted a bid which substantially undercut their competitor.
With no experience of producing wheeled armoured vehicles, the ROF bid was a political and financial gamble which, not surprisingly, didn’t pay off. The production FV721 Fox which entered service was beset with mechanical and stability problems that were never wholly rectified. Indeed, the only component that seemed to fully function as advertised, was Alvis’s turret.
With the CVR(T) production line in full flow, this perhaps explains why Alvis's Saladin R proposal offered the alternative Fox turret rather than the Scimitar's and might also have been influenced by an expectation that the FV721 Fox might even have been cancelled after a number of new turrets had already been produced.
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Of course it came down to cut-price politics.
Smart-money commonsense never enters into military procurement.
::) ::) ::)
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Of course it came down to cut-price politics.
Smart-money commonsense never enters into military procurement.
::) ::) ::)
For sure… :icon_crap:
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With the Tamiya and Dragon models off the cards, I contemplated (for a few nano-seconds) butchering the Airfix Saracen when it eventually comes out. However:
1) The model isn’t due to be released here until the end of next month.
2) Any conversion would still be a massive undertaking - same goes for the Stalwart.
3) I have a bit of a soft spot for the venerable Saracen having stooged around in one out on the ranges and it remains one of the few models I would (will) build out of the box rather than chop up out of hand.
So, that left me looking at my entry-level Creality 3D printer wondering what might be possible. With 3 different Saladin and one Fox CVR(W) CAD files to play with a lot of accuracy and scaling checks followed which resulted in one of the Saladin being immediately rejected when it became obvious that it was essentially just a copy of the inaccurate Tamiya offering. I also had to account for the limitations of my filament printer by removing any and details that wouldn’t print. That pushed my abilities and that of my school-boy CAD program to our limits but eventually I got there and it was time to release the dogs of war - well, more like the poodles of printing!
The removed/missing detail all had to be replaced from the spares box or manufactured but the end result is pretty close to what I was after…
(https://i.imgur.com/wK535FQ.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Yc18U3T.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zMmNWp1.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/H9oyaJ1.jpeg)
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A few more bits of detailing and a spray of primer helps bring the wee beastie together and all for a little over £5 - bargain! :smiley:
(https://i.imgur.com/dIdDgPj.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ooq85Kr.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/R62Iy3d.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X62GRoG.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/U5RTeXA.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rB1D5Fl.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m4MedwY.jpeg)
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Thought this might amuse you;
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HGLmM58XoAAxwYT?format=jpg&name=orig)
From over on What If Modellers;
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=30511.msg1111775#new (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=30511.msg1111775#new)
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Thought this might amuse you;
From over on What If Modellers;
Yup, the Japanese Type 87 APC does indeed look a little like some illegitimate love child of the Saladin and with the Scimitar turret… :o ;D
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Looks pretty good for an FDM print :smiley: Did you print it in several parts and put it together?
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Looks pretty good for an FDM print :smiley: Did you print it in several parts and put it together?
Thanks mate. :smiley:
It was printed in only 9 parts: the hull main body, 6 x wheels, turret and turret bustle. Wheels definitely work better than tracks on a FDM printer…
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Bravo :smiley:
That really works well. Using the avail renders and what you have done replacing obvious bits that would be less than acceptable from a print.
Ok a maybe I am a bit sorry that I did not see an Uber scratch build emerging from an Airfix stalwart running gear however what we have looks just terrific :smiley: :smiley:
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Thanks mate.
To be honest, scratch building a vehicle that is already available in another format seems like a bit of a waste of time, resources and effort. My FDM printer is far from perfect and perhaps, one day, I will splash out on a resin printer but, until then, it will do for quick turn-around jobs. Sacrilege? ;)
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Thanks mate.
To be honest, scratch building a vehicle that is already available in another format seems like a bit of a waste of time, resources and effort. My FDM printer is far from perfect and perhaps, one day, I will splash out on a resin printer but, until then, it will do for quick turn-around jobs. Sacrilege? ;)
Fully agree.. probably just getting so used to the magic you can do with some styrene and bits. I have to say that I was this (image the Max Smart this close ;) close to getting a 3D render of the Saracen to print, when Airfix announced theirs, so as you say, why scratch when you can print.. or wait long enough for an injection kit. I have just finished the Accurate Armour 3.7" AA gun, so stay tuned for a release of that ;D
Love your work :smiley: :smiley:
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Much appreciated.
Looking forward to seeing the big 3.7” AA gun - it must be an impressive piece! :smiley:
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I've seen a preview elsewhere, it's impressive, alright! But it's obvious that the number of tiny pieces of resin involved would drive a sane man crazy! :-\
Luckily no-one here is sane, so it can't effect us! ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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Great printing job! If you have an enclosed printer with a vent (grow tent in acceptable), you can try printing in ABS, HIPS or ASA. You would then be able to smooth the prints with Acetone vapor and even glue the parts together with Acetone or Tamiya Extra thin (like any modern ABS or Styrene kit).
I use my FDM for prototyping and basic shapes - for some shapes, I find it a little faster than measuring, cutting and gluing styrene. I can work on something else while a part is printing. I occasionally use a print part as a skeleton for a styrene skin. PLA works OK, but ABS/ASA/HIPS works better.
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Food for thought. ABS may well be the way forward. :smiley:
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Saladin R (FV608 Scarab)
During the 1960s the UK began work on what was then called the Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance. The project called for a series of light, fast and highly mobile tracked vehicles that would replace the British Army’s current fleet of wheeled armoured cars in the reconnaissance and spearhead roles. Introduced into service in the early to mid-1970s, the FV 100 series of Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) (CVR(T)) in the form of the 76mm armed Scorpion, 30mm armed Scimitar, Swingfire missile armed Striker, Spartan APC, Sultan CPV, Samaritan ambulance and Samson ARV proved to be hugely successful both with the British Army and export sales.
At much the same time as the CVT(T) program was being developed for the Regular Army, a somewhat less ambitious program was also being considered for the Territorial Army (TA). Intended to support the defence of the UK mainland and the transit corridor to and from the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) a wheeled vehicle was deemed more appropriate and spawned the CVR(W) project.
Leyland Motors, which then included Jaguar/Daimler and Alvis were given the task of designing and building the first CVR(W) prototypes. Both Daimler and Alvis had considerable experience in the field of armoured cars having produced the Ferret series of scouts and the Saladin armoured car respectively. However, given the secondary role of the CVR(W), inevitable cost constraints and a degree of political infighting culminated in a number of design compromises that adversely affected the end product. The Fox, as the new vehicle was to be called, used an adapted gearbox and drive train from the earlier, lighter Daimler Ferret which, already at the limits of its potential, resulted in frequent failures when connected to the heavier and faster new vehicle. For commonality and given that Alvis were already producing the CVR(T) series, it was dictated that the Fox would also carry what was, essentially, a slightly modified Scimitar 30mm turret. This is not what Daimler had initially intended and resulted in a dangerously high centre of gravity making the vehicle prone to roll overs during high-speed cornering.
The Fox’s acceptance trials did not go well with two vehicles rolling and all of the others breaking down at one time or another. Although minor adjustments were undertaken the critical limitations were so severe that only a major redesign could save the project. However, in the stringent financial climate of the early 1970s, that was never going to be an option and so Fox, and the potential of a FV720 series, died there and then.
Fortuitously, at the twelfth hour, Alvis stepped up and proposed a low-cost alternative CVR(W) that would, potentially, both provided the TA with the capability they needed whilst also keeping the government’s budgeteers happy.
The alternative CVR(W) proposal would see the Regular Army’s Saladin armoured cars, currently in the process of being replaced by CVR(T), returned to Alvis for a mechanical overhaul. This would include the upgrading of the engine to the B81 Mk 8B model, as fitted to the Stalwart, and the replacement of their 76mm turrets with the new 30mm turret already designed, tooled and produced for the cancelled Fox program. The transformation capitalised on the mechanical reliability and ease of maintenance of the Saladin with the lower profile of the new turret whilst also replacing the worn out 76mm L5A1 guns with the more appropriate and modern 30mm L21 RARDEN cannon already entering service with the CVR(T) Scimitar.
Intended as a stop gap until the universal deployment of CVR(T) throughout the British Army, the FV601 Saladin R, as it was initially designated, entered service in 1975 as the FV608 Scarab. Within the TA, four yeomanry regiments and two independent squadrons eventually converted to the Scarab in the armoured reconnaissance role:
• Queen’s Own Yeomanry (5 x Squadrons) - 15th TA Bde, 2 UK Infantry Division in support of BAOR.
• The Royal Yeomanry (5 x Squadrons) - 49th TA Bde, 2 UK Infantry Division in support of BAOR.
• The Duke of Lancaster’s Own Yeomanry (4 x Squadrons) - 2 Inf Bde, Home Defence
• The Scottish Yeomanry (4 x Squadrons) - 1 Bn, 51 (Highland) Inf Bde in support of 4 Arm Div, BAOR, and Home Defence.
• The Wessex Yeomanry (Independent Squadron) - 19th Inf Bde, 4 Arm Div, BAOR.
• The Northumbrian Hussars (Independent Squadron) - 1st Inf Bde, NATO AMF.
The yeomanry regiments comprised of 4-5 squadrons each of 12 x Scarab, 4 x Ferret Mk 5 (Swingfire), and 4 x Saracen APC split between 4 x troops, and a squadron HQ of 1 x Saracen CPV, 1 x Ferret Mk 4 and 1 x Saracen ambulance. The independent squadrons comprised 24 x Scarab and 21 x Ferret Mk 4 split between 3 x troops and a squadron HQ of 1 x Saracen CPV, 1 x Ferret Mk 4 and 1 x Saracen ambulance.
In the mid-1980s, the Saracen APCs, Saracen CPVs and Saracen ambulances were replaced by Spartan APCs, Sultan CPVs and Samaritan ambulances respectively. Although only ever intended as a stop gap, the FV608 Scarab remained in service until finally retired in 1993. Its longevity, testament to its rugged, practical design and the realities of overseas sales of CVR(T) taking priority over the needs of the TA. It is possible that the Scarab may have served longer were it not for the end of the Cold War and the subsequent peace dividends that slashed the size of the British Army.
FV608 Scarab
In Service: 1975-1993
Mass: 11.4T
Length: Hull - 4.9 m, with turret forward - 6.1 m
Width: 2.54m
Height: 2.23m
Crew: 3
Main
armament: 30mm L21 RARDEN cannon
Secondary
armament: Co-axial 7.62mm L37A2 machine gun
Engine: Rolls-Royce B81 Mk 8B, 8-cylinder, 6.5ltr, petrol – 220hp (164kW)
Speed: 50mph (80km/h)
Range: 250mls (400km)
The model depicts the Troop Sergeant’s Scarab of 2 Troop, B Squadron, The Scottish Yeomanry in support of 1st Bn, 51 (Highland) Inf Bde during Ex LIONHEART 84. Construction is from a combination of three different scaled and reworked Cult3d.com prints, some spare parts from a Tamiya Warrior MICV, some plastic card, some carbon fibre rod, an old paperclip and some home-grown decals.
(https://i.imgur.com/qhKrktD.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HQKwmf2.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JaBWHSL.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jpLLAOz.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XzDO9St.jpeg)
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:smiley:
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Very nice! Much better than the Fox! 8) ;)
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Nailed it.. that is super good. AS a 3 footer, never even tell that was printed. Good work
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Many thanks chaps, much appreciated. :smiley:
I may end up doing the Saracen and Ferret Mk 5 Swingfire as companion pieces…
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:-*
Ok, you have convinced me to:
- Get quotes for my shed conversion (insulating, lining and air-conditioning plus an extraction fan/hood)
- Buy a Resin printer bundle
- Subscribe to the XHorse 3D Kickstarter
That build is awesome!
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Thanks mate and that’s quite a reaction! ;D