Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Completed GBs => Group and Themed Builds => Scandinavian GB => Topic started by: Claymore on August 11, 2024, 02:28:21 AM
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Having, over the years, dabbled in Scandinavian AFVs (Finnish Surma, Norwegian Truge and Danish M41 DK-2), I feel that it is only fitting that I should try and put something together for this GB.
(https://i.imgur.com/KVIYc2N.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WdMlDl9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0KIJcyP.jpg)
So, I have something a little different in mind and my project will be based on this RL Finnish vehicle but with a twist - of course! ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/SsUVrtM.jpg)
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Wikimedia image:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Comet_tank_in_Oulu_2007_b.jpg/640px-Comet_tank_in_Oulu_2007_b.jpg)
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Wikimedia image:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Comet_tank_in_Oulu_2007_b.jpg/640px-Comet_tank_in_Oulu_2007_b.jpg)
Yes mate, a Finnish Comet will indeed feature but heavily modified and more like my original pic… ;)
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You're going to build The MTO-66 you made a drawing of a few years ago?
(https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/attachments/finnish-p-15-termit-styx-tel-png.624080/)
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That was indeed my initial thought but then I changed my mind. The Finnish MTO-66 (Styx) TEL was a RL vehicle (although it seems that the trials were not a success and it didn’t go into serial production) and I really wanted to stay in the realms of alternative history/whiffagery. So, while paying homage to the Styx TEL, I will be taking a different route. ;)
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I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
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:smiley:
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(https://www.animaatjes.nl/eten-en-drinken/eten-en-drinken-plaatjes/nootjes-en-popcorn/animaatjes-nootjes-en-popcorn-8911375.gif)
(Quite literally, at the moment, as I'm munching on a bowl of banged grains. ;) )
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;D
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I really love the Norwegian Truge (that used to be an FT-17, yes?) and will look forward to seeing what happens to the Comet.
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Nice work on the back deck of the M41! One of these days I’ll build the M41 assault gun I keep rattling on about and steal that layout. Did you use the old Tamiya kit?
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I really love the Norwegian Truge (that used to be an FT-17, yes?) and will look forward to seeing what happens to the Comet.
Thanks mate. :smiley:
Yes indeed, developed from an FT-17. The full build and backstory is a at page 14 and 16 of my main Land thread.
Nice work on the back deck of the M41! One of these days I’ll build the M41 assault gun I keep rattling on about and steal that layout. Did you use the old Tamiya kit?
Yup, the good ol’ cheap and cheerful Tamiya kit.
(https://i.imgur.com/CcQ71wC.jpg)
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So far none of your builds have ever been even close to being less than spectacular... So bring it on
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I recognize those air filters
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I recognize those air filters
:smiley:
So far none of your builds have ever been even close to being less than spectacular... So bring it on
Most kind. Just waiting for the base kit (Tamiya Comet) to arrive by post then I’ll fire up the cutting torches! ;)
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So here we go!
Initial work very much straight out of the box except for the blanked off hull machine gun port and a few bits of detailing removed from the back plate of the hull. More goodness to follow in due course!! :smiley:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ob4UZOn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BXS7Qfu.jpg)
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So far none of your builds have ever been even close to being less than spectacular... So bring it on
Most kind.
He's right, though. :smiley:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ob4UZOn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BXS7Qfu.jpg)
A-and we're off! :D
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Komeetta, mikä komeetta - Update:
So, here are the latest WIP pics and I'm thinking that perhaps I should change my project title form 'Comet, what Comet?' to (misquoting Douglas Adams) 'So long and thanks for all the fins' or (borrowing from Gerry Anderson) 'Thunderbirds are go!'
Anywho, the cat is now well and truly out of the bag and sort of explains my generational comment on Buzzbomb's GB entry. I have a very plausible backstory in mind but more of that in due course. In the meantime, I now have to somehow construct the maddest looking launch cradle/gantry/erector thingy I have ever seen!
(https://i.imgur.com/Nft1h1R.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kOJjnV9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JVLF3Cw.jpg)
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Being quite a fan of madness generally, and what looks a lot like a Bloodhound, I look forward to seeing more.
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Being quite a fan of madness generally, and what looks a lot like a Bloodhound, I look forward to seeing more.
Madness is good! ;)
Bloodhound - no. What I have is the English Electric Thunderbird - the British Army’s little brother to the RAF’s Bloodhound.
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One missile on each side of the turret or two on top? This is going to be wild!
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One missile on each side of the turret or two on top? This is going to be wild!
I’m looking at this being a trials vehicle for the Finns developing a SAM TEL capability. I currently only have a single Thunderbird missile so looking to go with one on top of the turret. As you will see, although the little brother of the Bloodhound, the Thunderbird is still quite a large beastie!
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Being quite a fan of madness generally, and what looks a lot like a Bloodhound, I look forward to seeing more.
Madness is good! ;)
Bloodhound - no. What I have is the English Electric Thunderbird - the British Army’s little brother to the RAF’s Bloodhound.
Wait.. what :o... whatever it is.. what a great idea :smiley:
Where did you get the missile from ? If that is an FDM print, it came out ok
When you mentioned the generational thing, it did seem that some sort of AA platform was in the offing.
The Comet looks fairly neat, of course Tamiya so it would be. I have the Bronco offering from when that first appeared, but another generational swap could be considered.
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Wait.. what :o... whatever it is.. what a great idea :smiley:
Where did you get the missile from ? If that is an FDM print, it came out ok
When you mentioned the generational thing, it did seem that some sort of AA platform was in the offing.
The Comet looks fairly neat, of course Tamiya so it would be. I have the Bronco offering from when that first appeared, but another generational swap could be considered.
Never one to do things by halves, the Thunderbird missile was my first 3D print on my new printer - not perfect but will be good enough. :smiley:
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This is happening nicely! :smiley:
I'm afraid 3D is beyond me, both financially & technologically.
I probably could, eventually, learn how to use the printer but I'm a bit too stuck in the scratch-build & mould era to really want to change.
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This is happening nicely! :smiley:
I'm afraid 3D is beyond me, both financially & technologically.
I probably could, eventually, learn how to use the printer but I'm a bit too stuck in the scratch-build & mould era to really want to change.
Thanks.
I know exactly where you are coming from mate. I too feel a little out of my depth with the whole 3D printing thing - fortunately the printer I went for is relatively idiot proof although the mind boggling number of variables available, in the non-too-intuitive setting, probably means that I am not getting the best out of my printer. I am also still restricted to using pre-made designs bought from the interwebby which isn’t as flexible/convenient as it might be. I am willing to dabble in a basic CAD program to do a bit of designing but sometimes good old scratch-build and a bit of moulding is just as good. :smiley:
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Komeetta, mikä Komeetta - Update:
Latest WIP pics from my psychotic episode trying to figure out the demented shape of the Thunderbird cradle/launcher (no one picture ever tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth) and then actually trying to construct said multi-dimensional object! It's not actually finished yet but, suffice to say, I can feel the madness leaving my body and the Zen returning - phew!!
(https://i.imgur.com/rsa43tc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y46wIUu.jpg)
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What? ??? You didn't 3D print it? :icon_surprised:
Wonderful bit of scratch-work, though. :smiley:
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Unfortunately, I don’t have a printable file of the launcher nor do I have a suitable CAD program or the skill to use it even if I did! Sometimes the old ways are still the best ways - even if it does drive you round the bend! ;)
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Unfortunately, I don’t have a printable file of the launcher nor do I have a suitable CAD program or the skill to use it even if I did! Sometimes the old ways are still the best ways - even if it does drive you round the bend! ;)
Wisely I would think. Getting all the supports out and cleaned would be a prize pill.
Scratch building structures like that is still arguable the best way forward
This is a prize bit of scratchbuilding
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Komeetta, mikä Komeetta - Update:
Well, that is pretty much all of the build elements of this project completed save some wiring - but i need to give that a little more thought. She is most definitely not going to win any prizes in a beauty competition but, as a range test and evaluation vehicle, she does the job! Now on to painting and marrying up that big ol' Thunderbird missile...
WIP pics - you will note that most of the external ancillary equipment has been removed to prevent it becoming a potential hazard from the not inconsequential missile back-blast and, likewise, all extraneous openings have been welded closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/NJRknOi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DrTvFMS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YodUjKm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yB1tYFI.jpg)
Edit: Just typical - no sooner had I posted these pics before I realised that I haven’t built on the large bumpers/pusher plates on the rear bulkhead as seen on the original Finnish Styx vehicle. Spent the last half hour rectifying the omission and a few other near misses! ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/d2jJiII.jpg)
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Lookin' good! 8)
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Yup. And a very nice bit of styrene engineering there, too :smiley:
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Thanks muchy! :smiley:
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Beautiful styrene work!
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Honestly, it would look good in a Godzilla movie. Really like the launch cradle.
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Most kind! :smiley:
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Wow... that looks terrific.
What has been said before stands... terrific old school styrene work
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Komeetta, mikä Komeetta - Update:
Unfortunately, there won't be any pictures of the Thunderbird TEL in its undercoat as I got a bit carried away painting the missile and, whilst it was drying, I had already given the TEL its first coat of paint before I realised that I hadn't taken any pics. Ah well, such is old age...
However, to still your beating hearts, I present to you the Thunderbird missile in all her glory - not bad for my first attempt at 3D printing, although I say it myself! I have included a couple of images for those not overly familiar with the Thunderbird who may think it is some sort of dwarf Bloodhound. They are similar in some respects - mostly the four Gosling booster rockets and the target tracking guidance system. However, other than that, they are very different missiles.
The English Electric Thunderbird was, at its core, a medium-range, solid-fuelled, rocket-powered missile whilst the Bristol Bloodhound was a much larger, long-rang beast powered by 2 x liquid-fuelled, Thor ramjets. The respective manoeuvring systems were also very different. The Thunderbird had fixed, mid-mounted cruciform wings and moveable, rear-mounted control surfaces whilst the Bloodhound used its moveable, mid-mounted wings in opposition to roll the missile to the correct angle then together to pull into the desired direction.
Anyhoo, here are the WIP pics:
(https://i.imgur.com/Mn5llO9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jGRByJl.jpg)
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:smiley: 8)
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:smiley:
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So much goodness in one photo :D
Both missiles are really well executed and the size difference very interesting. I have seen a Bloodhound and they are big, the Thunderbird size now makes sense. As does the choice/time frame of the TEL vehicle.
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Count me among those who didn't realize the difference between Bloodhound and Thunderbird was that pronounced. And congratulations on a very successful (to my eye, anyway) first printing.
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So much goodness in one photo :D
Both missiles are really well executed and the size difference very interesting. I have seen a Bloodhound and they are big, the Thunderbird size now makes sense. As does the choice/time frame of the TEL vehicle.
Hopefully, the end product will do my overly ambitious intentions justice.. :smiley:
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Count me among those who didn't realize the difference between Bloodhound and Thunderbird was that pronounced. And congratulations on a very successful (to my eye, anyway) first printing.
Thanks. What we have above is a Mk 2 Bloodhound next to a Mk 1 Thunderbird. Actually, in the Bloodhound’s original Mk 1 guise, there was less of a size difference as it was quite a bit shorter in length to the later Mk 2. For those that are interested, the tech data is as follows:
Bloodhound Mk 1 - 1958-64
Length - 7.7m
War Head - 91Kg
Range - 52Km
Max Speed - Mach 2.2
Bloodhound Mk 2 - 1964-91
Length - 8.46m
War Head - 179Kg
Range - 190Km
Max Speed - Mach 2.7
Thunderbird Mk 1 - 1959-66
Length - 6.35m
Range - 48Km
Max Speed - Mach 2.2
Thunderbird Mk 2 - 1966-77
Length - 6.35m
Range - 75Km
Max Speed - Mach 2.7
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Great job on the Thunderbird!
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Great job on the Thunderbird!
Thanks mate. Hopefully, will soon have the whole vehicle put together. :smiley:
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Komeetta, mikä Komeetta - Update:
Real World
As detailed by the Finnish Anti-Aircraft Museum’s website {1}, Finland’s adoption of any surface-to-air missile system was a slow and tortuous process beset by indecision, political infighting, a chronic shortage of funds and a need to keep the Soviet bear happy.
In 1966, the UK was rationalizing its Thunderbird 1 missile batteries and was looking for a potential customer for the surplus systems. Initially, Finland appeared keen and several training systems were supplied along with a number of drill missiles, however, the Finnish government dragged its heals and dithered about its commit. This led to the deal falling through and the available Thunderbird systems were eagerly snapped up by Saudi Arabia.
Although the Finnish military continued to voice its concerns, there followed a decade of political disinterest before the crippling lack of anti-aircraft missile defence was again seriously considered in the mid-1970s. Even so, short of funds, the Finn’s initial venture into the missile era was limited to a few hundred Strella (SA-7) shoulder-launched missiles and three S-125 Pechora (SA-3) missile batteries which were delivered in 1978 and 1980 respectively. The relatively static, SA-3 missiles were used, primarily, in the air defence of the Helsinki region and remained operational until 2000.
What-If
The premise of this whiff is that, in 1966, Finland goes ahead with its purchase of the UK’s 36 redundant Thunderbird 1 missiles which are employed, much like the RL SA-3s, to provide the medium-range, high-altitude area defence of the Helsinki region. Realising the need for a more mobile solution to meet Finland’s air-defence requirements but constrained by what they have to hand, the Finns start to conduct their own research and development.
In the early 1970s, the Finnish Defence Research Agency (FDRA) is tasked with looking into the possibility of making the Thunderbird system truly mobile rather than just transportable. This is a big ask and whilst it is generally expected that the missile’s significant bulk will constrain it as a practicable option, the trials go ahead anyway, even if only to gain valuable experience for the future. At much the same time, the FDRA is tasked with also conducting a set of very similar trials with their MTO-66 Permit (Styx) anti-shipping missiles. Two disarmed comet tanks are release from reserve storage to the FDRA to facilitate the trials and these vehicles, after a number of modifications, are allocated: Number 1 to the MTO-66 Permit trial, and Number 2 to the Thunderbird trial.
A number of mobility trials are conducted, firstly with drill missiles and latterly with live missiles in order to study the impact on both the transporter and the missile. As resources are limited only two missiles can be spared for the firing trials – these being recorded as numbered 01 and 02 respectively. The firing trial is to measure the impact on the launch vehicle and any degradation to the missile’s performance after the mobility trial.
Much to everyone’s surprise, the firing trial proves to be entirely successful with little or no degradation of the missile’s performance. However, as expected, the somewhat jury-rigged system is quite limited in its cross-country performance and the reload process, already rather a complex and time-consuming evolution with the relatively static basic launcher, proves to be a complete nightmare requiring the missile, in its cradle, to dangle from the jib of an unsuitably large crane. Nevertheless, the Thunderbird1 and, subsequently, the Thunderbird 2 will remain in service in the semi-static system area defence role with the Finnish army until 1990.
The Finnish military’s, next purchase in 1975 will be the 2K12 Kub (SA-6) dedicated mobile air-defence system but, with the lessons learned from the Thunderbird trials, the canny Finns will acquire more 1S91 radar vehicles and missiles than the purchased number of launchers would suggest and, subsequently, will adapt their own T-55 and T-62 hulls to ersatz TELS (please see Buzzbomb’s excellent model. https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=11204.0 ).
The model depicts the Thunderbird trials vehicle with missile No 01 in both the transportation and firing configurations as it appeared on the FDRA firing range. It was constructed form a Tamiya A34 Comet, a 3D printed Thunderbird 1 missile from cults3d.com, quite a lot of styrene tubing and card, some telephone wiring, some knitting needle off-cuts, and a few home-made decals.
(https://i.imgur.com/vnUFCVI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BfkbNLw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KpNsaKS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AxWlYFT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SGhPZU1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rBIH4hl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AUTItnF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3iwc0dK.jpg)
Epilogue:
I have discovered that FDRA trials vehicle No1 still exist as an exhibit at the Finnish Museum of Coastal Artillery in Kuivasaari {2}, unfortunately, at this time, the final disposal of trials vehicle No2 remains a mystery.
(https://i.imgur.com/RMIIZNx.jpg)
Footnotes:
1. ilmatorjuntamuseo.fi
2. albumit.lasipalatsi.fi
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the Finnish Defence Research Agency (FDRA)
Possibly "Suomi Puolustustutkimuskeskus"*? ???
[*: Well, that's sort of what Google Translate tells me, anyway - minus the "Soumi" for some reason.]
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Great build & backstory, by the way. ;) :smiley: :smiley: 8)
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the Finnish Defence Research Agency (FDRA)
Possibly "Suomi Puolustustutkimuskeskus"*? ???
[*: Well, that's sort of what Google Translate tells me, anyway - minus the "Soumi" for some reason.]
Yup, I tried that too - I think it drops the Finnish part because I suspect it is just called the Defence Research Agency in Finland. The Finnish bit was probably added in the original reference I found for clarification only…
Great build & backstory, by the way. ;) :smiley: :smiley: 8)
As always, Muchas Gracias! :smiley:
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the Finnish Defence Research Agency (FDRA)
Possibly "Suomi Puolustustutkimuskeskus"*? ???
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It is "Puolustusvoimien tutkimuslaitos".
If you prefer to use an abbreviation, it is PVTUTKL.
https://puolustusvoimat.fi/tutkimuslaitos
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Splendid build! It does look like it would have needed a fair amount of Support vehicles going along with it, but it certainly would have given the Badgers pause.
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It is "Puolustusvoimien tutkimuslaitos".
If you prefer to use an abbreviation, it is PVTUTKL.
https://puolustusvoimat.fi/tutkimuslaitos
Many thanks for the accurate translation but I ‘ll just keep the anglicised version for simplicity. :smiley:
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Totally great build.
The right amount of "lets have a crack at this" clunkiness as well, for a proof of concept.
Great work
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It is "Puolustusvoimien tutkimuslaitos".
If you prefer to use an abbreviation, it is PVTUTKL.
https://puolustusvoimat.fi/tutkimuslaitos
Many thanks for the accurate translation but I ‘ll just keep the anglicised version for simplicity. :smiley:
Absolutely. Quite fitting on an English speaking forum.
... and: the model and the story are sooo credible :smiley:
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Thanks all, much appreciated! :smiley:
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Such creative building and integration of vehicle-launcher-missile :smiley: 8)
Super build of launch rack :smiley:
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Many thanks. :smiley:
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the Finnish Defence Research Agency (FDRA)
Possibly "Suomi Puolustustutkimuskeskus"*? ???
...
It is "Puolustusvoimien tutkimuslaitos".
If you prefer to use an abbreviation, it is PVTUTKL.
https://puolustusvoimat.fi/tutkimuslaitos
Pity Google Translate didn't know that. ::)
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the Finnish Defence Research Agency (FDRA)
Possibly "Suomi Puolustustutkimuskeskus"*? ???
...
It is "Puolustusvoimien tutkimuslaitos".
If you prefer to use an abbreviation, it is PVTUTKL.
https://puolustusvoimat.fi/tutkimuslaitos
Pity Google Translate didn't know that. ::)
I had to go to the source for it: https://puolustusvoimat.fi/en/about-us/finnish-defence-research-agency - and switch language.
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As a point of interest, a friend managed to find a couple of images of the real world Comet Styx launcher trials vehicle (FRDA trials vehicle No1 in my backstory). Pretty whacky and makes my Thunderbird launcher seem entirely plausible!
(https://i.imgur.com/y7EHIgb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tsFasR2.jpg)
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That's great, we are finally able to see what the launching rail looked like.
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The real launcher looks even more Heath Robinson than yours, mate! ;D
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The real launcher looks even more Heath Robinson than yours, mate! ;D
Life is indeed stranger than fiction! ;D
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Looks like it’s right out of an old movie! You’re hitting the nail right on the head with this build.
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Looks like it’s right out of an old movie! You’re hitting the nail right on the head with this build.
1950s movie !