Crusader with 5.5in Gun

[Buzzbomb]

In another thread on here I think I said I planned on building this someday


Well I dug out an Italeri Crusader


Did a bit of this scratchbuilding business


added one of these, the old Hinchliffe 5.5in Medium Gun I had on the shelf.
 It is a tad large as I think the Hinchcliffe stuff was scaled to 54mm not 1/35


This is not so much a what if as more of a  "what the hell were they thinking !!!"

[Old Wombat]

Yep, does look a tad large & the real thing looks to have had a better range of elevation, too.

So, what would it be if accurate to scale? ... 5.75"? ... 6"? ... 5.56"?

[Brian da Basher]

I really like the look of this beast!

Brian da Basher

[GTX_Admin]

Looking good.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

That is a very impressive build so far and I expect all of us will be feeling much more inadequate when it is finished and on the display shelf. 

On the real weapon system, was the ammunition hauled by a heavy truck?  I really do not see much room for on-board ammunition storage to service the piece.  Would it be correct to  assume that a dedicated ammunition carrying vehicle was to be developed to support this weapon? 

[Queeg]

Oooooo awesome!!!!   Can't wait to watch this progress 


I made a 72nd one (modifed) for my '46 Brits, like most things it's not finished yet and I had to use the crappy Airfix 5.5. It really needs a better gun to do it justice.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Oooooo awesome!!!!   Can't wait to watch this progress 


I made a 72nd one (modifed) for my '46 Brits, like most things it's not finished yet and I had to use the crappy Airfix 5.5. It really needs a better gun to do it justice.

Alvis' Stalwart as the ammunition vehicle is an excellent choice. 

[raafif]

Looks good - I'd use a Crusader carrier-tank to go with it - they were used to tow the 17pdr & larger arty (I think AA do one?). Another version you could do is the Argentine version - they got quite a few Crusader carriers & made them into SPGuns by adding armoured tops & mounting (very) old Schneider guns.

[Rickshaw]

Yep, does look a tad large & the real thing looks to have had a better range of elevation, too.

So, what would it be if accurate to scale? ... 5.75"? ... 6"? ... 5.56"?

54mm is usually defined as being equal to 1/32 which means in 1/35 scale, a 1/32 5.5in gun would be equivalent to 6in.  In millimetres this would mean that the 54mm gun's bore would measure 4.3mm, whereas a "true" (a relative term at best where modelling is concerned) 1/35 one would measure 4mm.  Basically, the difference would be invisible to the casual eye.

A good ammunition carrier would be a modified Crusader gun mover:



Usually used to tow the 17 Pdr in NW Europe but here in a Bovington photo shown towing a 25 Pdr and limber.

Assuming of course, this was in action in NW Europe.

[Buzzbomb]

Thanks to all so far.
I do have an Accurate Armour 5.5in gun, but no way would I use that on this build 

There are just so many things wrong with this concept, in a way Queeg's mounting on the Cromwell makes more sense.
But perhaps this was only a proof on concept, you can see why it got knocked on the head. That is the only photo I have found of this particular conversion. Perhaps some influence from the Archer layout was in play.
The position of the driver position is actually quite laughable, you really would not be able to see very much in any forward direction. As far as ammo carrier, I tend to agree with all the other suggestions on the use of the Crusader Gun tractor. But that concept on not having self contained ammo witht he vehichle is flawed as well.

But we are in Whiff world.. lets see what we can do to improve the basic concept.
Time for the some rough maths perhaps to see what weight saving have been made by remove of the upper hull, versus weight of gun to see what is left for other rudimentary stuff, like ammo, crew, gear.

One thought I had was move the the gun more central (the mount is not fixed yet) and have the driver position in a more original area, but incorporated some how with the Gunlayers location.

More to follow

[Rickshaw]

Perhaps if you move the gun rearwards and the driver's position forward?  Moving the gun forwards would also give more room to work the gun.  Particularly if you provide a fold down front plate, you'd have even more room.  Fold down sides would also help, particularly if they had seats on them for the crew.

If you use a gun tractor, as an ammunition supply vehicle, you could redesign it so that it had ammunition and charge lockers and if you gave it a fold down front plate, all you'd need to do is drive it up to the front of the SPG and you could have a working platform which allowed easy transfer of ammunition from the gun tractor to the SPG.

By 1944, the Crusader was a much more reliable vehicle and most of its problems in the desert were in the form of dust ingestion and over-heating, neither of which was present in NW Europe.   Which is why they were adopted to become gun tractors.  They were also available in some abundance and obsolete, whereas the Centaur/Cromwells weren't until after the war.

[Buzzbomb]

Perhaps if you move the gun rearwards and the driver's position forward?  Moving the gun forwards would also give more room to work the gun.  Particularly if you provide a fold down front plate, you'd have even more room.  Fold down sides would also help, particularly if they had seats on them for the crew.

You are pretty much right on my current thinking on this. Pretty much from what I have seen is that all the 5.5in gun numbers work between the trails.
Perhaps a more mechanical loading tray though, rather than the manual lift version but manual trail ramming.

Your point about the availablity of Crusader hulls is also very valid.

Enough there to motor ahead a bit.
Be a couple of weeks though, have to get over the Aussie Model Expo first.