Author Topic: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion  (Read 24687 times)

Offline Diamondback

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Didn't see one, so with all the ideas Evan and I have been lobbing at erach other I thought it was time for a thread on the S-65 and S-80 heavy lifters, aka:
-Sea Stallion (USN/USMC S-65)
-Super Jolly Green Giant (USAF S-65)
-Pave Low (USAF S-65 with nav upgrade)
-Super Stallion (USN/USMC S-80)
-Sea Dragon (USN S-80 minesweeper)
-CH-53K Heavy Lift Replacement

I'm going to break this down into several categories, and add on as Internet access (hotel server got nuked in a power surge and isn't due to be repaired for at least six hours) and research and ideas allow.

DEPLOYED:
-DIRCM laser countermeasures.

ACTUALLY TESTED:
-AIM-9 Sidewinder launchers for aircraft self-defense. I've seen a photo of a test-launch, but the missile's already away and both angle and smoke-trail hide the launcher.

IN DEVELOPMENT:
-Redesign with 7500shp GE38-1B engines. (CH-53K HLR, if it makes it to first flight.)

PROPOSED:
-VH-53F heavy-lifter Marine One
-Reducing fuel capacity in the sponsons to mount a pair of 20mm turrets.
-"Super Pave Low" alternative to Osprey, a CH-53E fitted with the Pave Low avionics package.

WHIFfer-ORIGINAL CONCEPTS:
-A four-engine derivative.
-"AH-53 Direct Action Penetrator": Grafting aircraft wings for weapons hardpoints onto a Pave Low, a la Mi-24 Hind.
-Point-defense laser system to not just divert but destroy incoming missiles. (Requires much advance in laser tech, back in the '60s it took a system filling a KC-135 to zap a Sidewinder.)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 02:43:57 PM by Diamondback »

Offline upnorth

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 08:02:27 PM »
I always thought the 53 would make a good basis for a large scale rotodyne type aircraft.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 08:15:18 AM »
Well, of course there's my "Pave Stallion" concept that combines a Super Stallion with the latest round of "Pave Low" equipment fit for heavy and deep CSAR.  I'm still doodling on a strictly rotary-winged AH-53 assault helicopter, something of a cross between a CH-53E and a Hind.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 12:09:34 AM »


Look at a 53K in development. Its definitely gotten a "facelift"
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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 02:31:42 AM »
PSR on a grand scale....
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 04:56:43 AM »
I think I've read somewhere it will have four engines, is that correct ?

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 05:15:28 AM »
Kitnut, not quite... it has the power of a 4-engine E, mainly from replacing the 3 4380shp T64's with 3 7500shp GE38-1B's. The four-engine Stallion is my MH-53X WHIF.which is also getting an eight-blade main rotor because of it. (Really, I wonder why Sikorsky engineers didn't just go with that config to start with... a little extra weight and material, but between performance and the cost-saving in engineering and machining man-hours...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 07:07:57 AM by Diamondback »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 05:58:54 AM »
Ah-Ha! thought it said something about four engines.  I went with much more powerful engines and more rotors for my Petrel (Merlin/Cormorant) AWAC project too.


Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 06:19:58 AM »
I did something similar in the concept for the -X, actually, along with the extra engine, though it doesn't use those new blade tips. (From 3x7500shp driving seven blades to 4x10,000shp driving eight...) This also helps cut down on ground support equipment... while the seven-bladed E and K need struts between the fuselage and the folded blades, I figure the back two on the X could support the other six without them, or only needing the struts in the tighter clearances of a shipboard environment.

Evan, your Pave Stallion and my Pave Low V as-built sound like almost the same concept... if you still have contacts at Sikorsky, or anyone at PMM-261 (H-53 System Program Office) you might ask them to poke around and see if they can find the old Sikorsky proposal from the '90s before Les Asspain administered an Osprey suppository.

EDIT: Just finished rendering the basic "star" sections of a reinforced 8-blade rotor hub in SketchUp, hope to upload a pic later this week. I was trying to keep the -E geometry as much as possible, hoping that the existing E knuckles (for lack of a better term) could be reused instead of having to craft a whole new part.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 07:11:55 AM by Diamondback »

Offline Geoff

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 07:29:20 AM »
AEW version anyone?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 04:33:19 PM »
AEW version anyone?

Cool idea.  Maybe for operation off USMC LHD/LHAs?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2012, 11:33:23 AM »
AEW version anyone?
Hmm, given the CH-53's configuration, you could mount it in on the aft ramp, or in place thereof, rather than on the side as done on the AEW Sea King.

Offline upnorth

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2012, 01:58:12 PM »
So in line with what the French did with the Puma?


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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 02:31:33 AM »
That definitely works for me.  It would be easy enough to swing the antenna back and up for landing.

Offline Geoff

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 07:28:47 AM »
 ;D I was wondering what helo I could do as an AEW bird and then saw this thread.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 07:44:24 AM by Geoff »

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 12:17:37 PM »
Here's an eight-blade rotor hub, based on the -E's but noticeably beefed up.


I figured since this hub is going to potentially have 40,000 shaft horsepower going through it out to the blades, the added rotational mass and weight was more than justified in its enhanced structural strength. Do need some help though... Need to know what angle that strut running from one blade's knuckle to the leg on the hub to its left peels off at so I can add the mount points. Other than that, look like it's ready for me to cut tubes and sheets and move on to the swashplate?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 12:29:58 PM »
Do any of the existing CH-53E kits have this piece in sufficient detail?  I didn't work on that one so can't comment.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2012, 12:38:23 PM »
Evan, that model's based on measurements taken from the Academy 1/48 E's hub--since I'm designing to fit that kit's blades, knuckles, etc, it seemed logical.

TBH, I'm kinda cheating, since I'm trying to just design it as a drop-in replacement for the kit parts, as long as it's "close enough"... The hub assembly builds up from 33 pieces, and one review I saw describes the rotor head alone as a complicated model by itself:
-top plate
-axle
-axle retainer
-upper hub
-lower hub
-fixed knuckle (non-folding, points aft in folded config)
-six folding knuckles
-six folding blade mounts
-seven (?)actuator struts (connect to trailing edge of knuckle, and other end slots in between two vertical plates on each arm of the lower hub)
-seven swashplate connector struts
-swashplate

The Academy kit really is a quantum-leap over the old Revell Super Jolly, even taking the differences between S-65 and S-80 into account.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 01:12:11 PM by Diamondback »

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 07:33:47 AM »
Well, I worked up a quick 3-view of a PL-ized E from some drawings on Wikipedia... sorry it's huge, but I haven't really had time to downsize and I find bigger images easier to work with adding details. (I still have some stuff to add later...)

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 04:16:38 PM »
And, an addition idea... might the ALE-50 towed decoy system off a B-1 be a feasible addition?

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 08:30:27 PM »
Here are some more updated photos of the CH-53K's progression !!

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Offline arc

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2013, 11:06:05 AM »
Well, I worked up a quick 3-view of a PL-ized E from some drawings on Wikipedia... sorry it's huge, but I haven't really had time to downsize and I find bigger images easier to work with adding details. (I still have some stuff to add later...)
Is there something futuristic in this design as could detect anything new?  No drag reductions..old radar...no advanced tail rotor.. no counter-rotating rotor etc...

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2013, 11:17:42 AM »
Been reading up on ASW ships and equipment and I found reference to a proposal for an SH-53 ASW Sea Stallion.  They would have occupied the larger SCS designs, dubbed VSS I-III, (up to 14 on III) and carried specialized towed sleds similar to the ones carried by the MH-53s when hunting mines, for detecting subs.  No further details listed but one could assume further ASW equipment would have at least been trialed aboard them.  Maybe even an attack version with a dipping sonar, sonobouys, and torpedoes?  Seeing one in the classy white over gull gray scheme would have been neat  8)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2013, 01:03:07 PM »
Well, I worked up a quick 3-view of a PL-ized E from some drawings on Wikipedia... sorry it's huge, but I haven't really had time to downsize and I find bigger images easier to work with adding details. (I still have some stuff to add later...)
Is there something futuristic in this design as could detect anything new?  No drag reductions..old radar...no advanced tail rotor.. no counter-rotating rotor etc...
Well, it's a mix of Pave Low V avionics and systems with the Super Stallion airframe and engines.  His next step, from what Diamondback has said, is another engine and an additional blade to the main rotor for his MH-53X.

Me, I'm playing with a nose similar to that of a "Hind A", as well as some gear from the ACH-47, for an AH-53E assault transport.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Sikorsky S-65/H-53 Sea Stallion, Super Sea Stallion, King Stallion
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2013, 01:47:31 PM »
arc, the point of that photochop was to go with the straight "slap an H/J/M nose on an E airframe" that Sikorsky had proposed as an interim replacement for the PL-IV to buy time for the Osprey to finish development back in the '90s. Quick, dirty and off the shelf. (Eventually, I'd like to, between myself and whoever I outsource some of the nastier bits to, create a "development history" series of 3-views from that circa mid-1990s to the initial shave of external antennas and addition of optical scanner arrays under the windows, and gradually piece-by-piece through the major mods that take it from a Boneyarded prototype up to its twenty-years-later form as the human-level-intelligence, ill-tempered and insanely armed Blackout. (And even here, part of the idea is to not get too radical in appearance changes... this beast needs to mostly pass for a standard trash-hauler until it's time to mount the gunship wings, stuff some hapless fool target into the Hurt Locker and weld it shut around them.)

I haven't even done anything with the #4 engine or eighth rotor blade yet... Contra-rotating props add a great deal of mechanical complexity, and just 'cause the radome itself is same old same old doesn't mean there couldn't be something new hidden under it. This thread I intended as an idea bank planning to start a build-plan thread later, but the FIRST thing I did on the build was eliminate all the external antenna blades and the Missile Warning Receiver bulges since they're being replaced by an F-35-style EODAS...