Author Topic: Avro CF-105 Arrow  (Read 27061 times)

Offline Daryl J.

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Avro CF-105 Arrow
« on: November 26, 2012, 06:57:32 AM »
Royal Norwegian stand off nuke ALBM (W-28, Green Bamboo, etc.)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 07:55:32 AM by Daryl J. »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 07:03:21 AM »
Damn Vikings... ;D
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 07:24:13 AM »
Maybe the semi recessed missile will have to be named the Opprort Troll then!    (Uproaring Troll)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 07:35:57 AM »
Over the years I've collected art of various proposed Arrow versions.  I'm not sure they are small enough to post here, but I've got the Mk.3, the PS-2, one Mk.4 proposal with a cleaned-up version of the PS-2's ramjets and tankage, and one of a PS-2 firing a PS-13 ABM.  Be glad to send them to someone to adjust to fit.  That Mk.4 could easily have just tanks instead of the full package under the wings.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 08:10:10 AM »
Over the years I've collected art of various proposed Arrow versions.  I'm not sure they are small enough to post here, but I've got the Mk.3, the PS-2, one Mk.4 proposal with a cleaned-up version of the PS-2's ramjets and tankage, and one of a PS-2 firing a PS-13 ABM.  Be glad to send them to someone to adjust to fit.  That Mk.4 could easily have just tanks instead of the full package under the wings.

How about Photobucket or your favourite photo sharing site. I'd love to see them Evan.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 08:25:07 AM »
Really don't have a photobucket account or a sharing site at the moment.  Something more to attend to.

Let em see if I can't get them off to you in the next few days.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 08:42:09 AM »
I bought these ones through CanMilAir's website

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 07:53:41 AM »
RAF anti-satellite
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 08:55:21 AM »
Karl Mesojednik has on his Avro Arrow Dedication Page about 20 nice profiles from the MK.I to the MK.IX.

Page is here.
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 01:59:33 PM »
Brilliant stuff there, thanks for the link.  :)
Regards
Kit

--------------------------
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Offline Diavel

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2013, 04:40:01 AM »
How about a 3 engined slightly modified version built to intercept UFO's??


Just call me the thread killer.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2013, 10:21:18 AM »
It may be silly, but it sure is pretty.

YouTube: 5th Gen SUPERSONIC CF105 MK3


Cheers,

Logan

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2013, 04:56:11 PM »
Why put the Pythons in the weapons bay?  Their seekers can't "see" behind those metal doors...

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2013, 10:23:32 PM »
Why put the Pythons in the weapons bay?  Their seekers can't "see" behind those metal doors...

Strange choice given that there are wing pylons, but not really a problem for the Pythons with their lock-on after launch capability. And maybe they've somehow tied in the Python's seeker with the IRST? And there's still the F-22's current low-tech solution - open the bay doors, extend trapeze and missile into the slipstream, let the seeker do its thing and then fire - or not.
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Moritz

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2013, 02:04:46 AM »
I've always like the idea of a late 1960s Arrow modified by Vietnam experience:

Clear canopy
Gun and fuel in the former weapons bay
4 x Sparrow on the fuselage corners, F-15 style
Underwing drop tanks with 4 x Sidewinder on the sides of the pylons, F-15 style again
Twin vertical fins mounted at mid-span

 
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2013, 04:01:31 AM »
On my Super Arrow, I'm going with four F-15 wing tanks each with a pair of AIM-54 style missiles on the inboard pylon and Sparrows on the outer ones, then  another four AIM-54's on the fuselage corners just like your idea Harold.  I'm also moving the u/c into the fuselage.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2013, 04:16:40 AM »
Pretty...

Cheers,

Logan

Offline mrvr6

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2013, 04:48:30 AM »
On my Super Arrow, I'm going with four F-15 wing tanks each with a pair of AIM-54 style missiles on the inboard pylon and Sparrows on the outer ones, then  another four AIM-54's on the fuselage corners just like your idea Harold.  I'm also moving the u/c into the fuselage.

you got a wip thread for that beast?

Online jcf

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2013, 04:55:34 AM »
I've always like the idea of a late 1960s Arrow modified by Vietnam experience:

Clear canopy
Gun and fuel in the former weapons bay
4 x Sparrow on the fuselage corners, F-15 style
Underwing drop tanks with 4 x Sidewinder on the sides of the pylons, F-15 style again
Twin vertical fins mounted at mid-span

First you'd have to give it a "weapons bay".  :-X

The Arrow was built as a weapons system, and part of that system was a removable weapons 'pack',
which also contained the electronics specific to the particular missile. The pack ran the full width of
the fuselage and partly up the side of the aircraft. When it was removed you just had a gaping hole
in the airframe. The pack was also quite shallow due to the engine intake ducts running directly
above. Turning the weapons pack area into a multi-purpose bay would require a great deal of
structural and systems rearrangement. All of this has been public knowledge for decades so why
these idiots at Boudreau can't even get the details right just underscores that their 'project' is a
con job on the uninformed. Their research seems to be limited to reading Russell Whitcomb's
flag-waving, and inaccurate, books.
As a Canadian I get so tired of the endless mythical horseshit surrounding the Arrow. To me,
myth-making denigrates real accomplishments.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
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Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2013, 05:12:00 AM »
you got a wip thread for that beast?

I've got one on another forum I think, I thought I had one here though but it doesn't look like it as I can't find it  -----  In the Arrowhead book it broaches on later versions of the Arrow, Mach 3 and others.  It suggests a bigger version of the Iroquois but there's not a lot of room in the first two versions to increase the engine diameter so I looked for something I could use to accomodate some bigger engines.  I had in the stash one of those really terrible Zhendefu Mig-31's which also has a boxy fuselage so after some part match-ups, used the fuselage.  I've increased the fin area too, I calculated the area of the two Mig-31 fins and then increased that Arrow fin to be the same.  I didn't have to add much.  I decided to give the outer wing leading edges the Avro treatment, these are very thin and curve downwards (which doesn't really show up in the photos).  The tank in the bottom pic will be the master for some castings, needs a bit of cleaning up but I used a Mig-31 pylon for a base.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 05:18:53 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2013, 05:22:41 AM »
I decided that the original main u/c gear wasn't really up to un-prepared airstrips (I'm thinking forward gravel strips in the Arctic) which is why I moved the gear to the fuselage, just not any room in the wings for more robust u/c gear or wheels.  I've worked out how they would work and how they would retract. Wheels are F-105 ones

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2013, 05:45:52 AM »
I decided that the original main u/c gear wasn't really up to un-prepared airstrips (I'm thinking forward gravel strips in the Arctic) which is why I moved the gear to the fuselage, just not any room in the wings for more robust u/c gear or wheels.  I've worked out how they would work and how they would retract. Wheels are F-105 ones
No way to adapt a dual wheel arrangement such as that used on the Jaguar?  It always looked like a much sturdier design and hopefully offered good performance on unprepared surfaces. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kitnut617

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  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2013, 05:48:30 AM »
I thought about it Jeff, but wanted to keep the tandem style arrangement. Besides, too late now  - I've got it all figure out   ;)

It doesn't look too bad with the new u/c and I thought I had a photo of it temporarily on it's u/c but it's gone missing.  Unless I put it in another directory   :-X
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 05:52:54 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2013, 08:31:26 AM »
I've always like the idea of a late 1960s Arrow modified by Vietnam experience:

Clear canopy
Gun and fuel in the former weapons bay
4 x Sparrow on the fuselage corners, F-15 style
Underwing drop tanks with 4 x Sidewinder on the sides of the pylons, F-15 style again
Twin vertical fins mounted at mid-span

A shrunk F-108?

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2013, 08:12:57 PM »
I've always like the idea of a late 1960s Arrow modified by Vietnam experience:

Clear canopy
Gun and fuel in the former weapons bay
4 x Sparrow on the fuselage corners, F-15 style
Underwing drop tanks with 4 x Sidewinder on the sides of the pylons, F-15 style again
Twin vertical fins mounted at mid-span

First you'd have to give it a "weapons bay".  :-X

The Arrow was built as a weapons system, and part of that system was a removable weapons 'pack',
which also contained the electronics specific to the particular missile. The pack ran the full width of
the fuselage and partly up the side of the aircraft. When it was removed you just had a gaping hole
in the airframe. The pack was also quite shallow due to the engine intake ducts running directly
above. Turning the weapons pack area into a multi-purpose bay would require a great deal of
structural and systems rearrangement. All of this has been public knowledge for decades so why
these idiots at Boudreau can't even get the details right just underscores that their 'project' is a
con job on the uninformed. Their research seems to be limited to reading Russell Whitcomb's
flag-waving, and inaccurate, books.
As a Canadian I get so tired of the endless mythical horseshit surrounding the Arrow. To me,
myth-making denigrates real accomplishments.


Pardon my hasty and inaccurate use of language.....

I know how the Arrow's "weapon pack" worked and had this in mind with my scheme. I'm not suggesting for a moment it should be "multi-purpose", rather I'd have it replaced by a permanently fitted fuel tank. If it was possible to use 1/4 to 1/3 of the volume for a gun or guns and ammo, then that would be good, but if it was too complicated I'd say go with all-fuel and fit the gun in an external conformal pod.

I think I'm right in saying that several "official" advanced Arrow schemes had a hardpoint under the rear fuselage behind the weapon pack, so that might be a possible location for a gun pod. Some might look askance at it being so far back, but the MiG-31 carries it's gun a long way back on the fuselage too, without apparent difficulty.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith