Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: ysi_maniac on September 06, 2012, 11:56:18 PM

Title: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 06, 2012, 11:56:18 PM
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/fiat_g91_f84.jpg)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: Daryl J. on April 13, 2013, 02:41:15 PM
Multiple US Army variants.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 13, 2013, 03:19:05 PM
What if the original plan had gone ahead and the G.91 had become the standard NATO light tactical support aircraft.  Operators including all of NATO.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: Weaver on April 13, 2013, 05:12:32 PM
I built a Red Arrows G.91 (but mucked up the paint) based on the idea that the RAF bought into the standard NATO attack aircraft idea.

The idea was that most of NATO bought into the G.91, but that the unity fell apart in the next generation, with the RAF and Luftwaffe going with the Harrier, the Italians the G.91Y (rejected by the rest because of it's American engines), and most of the export customers swapping to the F-5E. That left the next generation trainer requirement to sort out: Shorts and Breguet came up with an Adour-engined G.91T rebuild, and that took the place occupied in the real world by the Hawk and the Alpha Jet.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: Daryl J. on November 17, 2013, 04:05:54 AM
I'm both surprised and tickled there is a mainstream injection moulded kit in 1:48 coming.
Lots of US Army and OR Army National Guard based ideas.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: Daryl J. on December 01, 2013, 03:51:16 AM
Could someone please refer me to a place or five where US underwing munitions that could have been carried by the Gina are listed?  I'm too ignorant on that subject for Google to be my friend.  :-[

Thanks.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 01, 2013, 04:09:17 AM
Quote from: Daryl J. on December 01, 2013, 03:51:16 AM
Could someone please refer me to a place or five where US underwing munitions that could have been carried by the Gina are listed?  I'm too ignorant on that subject for Google to be my friend.  :-[

Thanks.

Given the US Army  were considering the G.91 in the early '60s, I would assume just about anything you see on platforms such as the F-4, A-7, F-5, A-37 etc would be suitable (within reason). 
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: Daryl J. on December 01, 2013, 07:49:37 AM
Thanks all.  :)
It's appreciated.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: Weaver on December 01, 2013, 09:24:48 PM
Quote from: Daryl J. on December 01, 2013, 03:51:16 AM
Could someone please refer me to a place or five where US underwing munitions that could have been carried by the Gina are listed?  I'm too ignorant on that subject for Google to be my friend.  :-[

Thanks.

Max payload for the single-engined Ginas was 1500lb on four pylons. I think the individual pylon rating were 500lb each but I'm not sure. That would imply Mk.81 or Mk.82 low drag bombs or any variant thereof, Rockeye cluster bombs, and just about any standard 2.75" rocket pod.

Of course, if the US Army got it's own CAS force, it might not neccessarily adopt exising Air Force/Navy weapons, preferring to buy/develop it's own. For instance, they might decide they like the Gina's standard SNEB rockets better than the FFARs, or that they prefer a twin 20mm/30mm cannon fit to the quad .50" MGs.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 13, 2022, 07:33:59 AM
Fiat G.104

Two options for chin intake: semicone and F-16 style

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Fiat-G104.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/1b15de35-589a-4947-a4a8-31b87f2a53e0)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 14, 2022, 04:32:51 AM
Gina with downscaled and shortened wings and tailplane from F-4.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/G-91-F4.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/376f8ddc-fdc3-4f7e-a6a4-bba718fe8ed9)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: raafif on March 14, 2022, 06:40:16 AM
Had fun (not) doing these real schemes :D
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 15, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
^^^^^
Is there something wrong with back seat canopy in Portuguese or Irish trainers?
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 15, 2022, 02:44:17 PM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FiatG-91_cs.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/2e484058-a3b6-4c1e-81ae-0956bc19c34a)

Did you know that G.91Y was 137 cm langer and 2360 Kg (gross weight) heavier than G.91R?

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FiatG-91-reengined_cs(1).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/3897c6c6-8baf-4d2d-b176-22530d64bf41)

I decided to reengine them. I have to accept that F404 for G.91Y is a bit extreme, but they did it with F-5, ... why not Gina?
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 16, 2022, 01:17:43 AM
Oh...interesting.  Doing the comparison between F404 and Twin J85s:

  2 × General Electric J85-GE-13A  1 × General Electric F404-GE-100
Total Engine Weight (excluding structure)  1,368 lb(620 kg)  2,282 lb (1,035 kg)
Engine Width  41.6 in (106 cm)  35 in (89 cm)
Engine Length  112.5 in (286 cm)  154 in (390 cm)
Thrust Dry  5,450 lbf (24.24 kN)  11,000 lbf (49 kN)
Thrust Afterburner  8,160 lbf (36.3 kN)  17,700 lbf (79 kN)
Thrust:Weight (afterburner)  5.96:1  7.76:1

Would be doable I believe but might need to balance the extra tail weight to counter it being a tail sitter.  Would be damn spritely though.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: upnorth on March 16, 2022, 01:48:12 PM
Real world nations that were in line to have them, but ultimately didn't were: Greece, Israel, South Africa and turkey.

Greece and Turkey changed their minds (or maybe had their minds changed for them) and the aircraft build for them were given to the Luftwaffe.

The Italian government vetoed the sale of G.91s to Israel and South Africa on political grounds.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 16, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/TinyGina.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/6d55fd66-b183-436e-a56e-59ec561c5868)

  :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 17, 2022, 01:28:24 AM
Quote from: upnorth on March 16, 2022, 01:48:12 PM
The Italian government vetoed the sale of G.91s to Israel and South Africa on political grounds.

Hmmm...Israeli or Sth African G-91s would be interesting.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 17, 2022, 01:28:51 AM
Quote from: upnorth on March 16, 2022, 01:48:12 PM
Greece


(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/56/pics/23_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: raafif on March 18, 2022, 07:52:25 AM
Quote from: ysi_maniac on March 15, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
^^^^^
Is there something wrong with back seat canopy in Portuguese or Irish trainers?

No, just a variation on some aircraft.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:06:14 AM
(http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/431316147900125954.jpg)

CFBV
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:07:09 AM
(https://library.avsim.net/sendfile.php?Location=AVSIM&Proto=file&ImageID=485485)

CFBV
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:08:01 AM
(https://cdn.flightsim.to/images/09/rQySGbn3.jpg?width=1400&auto_optimize=medium)

CFBV
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:08:23 AM
(https://library.avsim.net/sendfile.php?Location=AVSIM&Proto=file&ImageID=485697)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:08:54 AM
(https://library.avsim.net/sendfile.php?Location=AVSIM&Proto=file&ImageID=485528)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:09:43 AM
(https://library.avsim.net/sendfile.php?Location=AVSIM&Proto=file&ImageID=486266)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:11:11 AM
(https://cdn.flightsim.to/images/08/zGu4Fv3S.jpg?width=1400&auto_optimize=medium)

CFBV
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:12:02 AM
(https://cdn.flightsim.to/images/16/FRHMgbmq.jpg?width=1400&auto_optimize=medium)

CFBV
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:16:33 AM
(https://cdn.flightsim.to/images/12/KhcENL6S.jpg?width=1400&auto_optimize=medium)

Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 19, 2022, 01:17:29 AM
(https://cdn.flightsim.to/images/08/MY9uhgvn.jpg?width=1400&auto_optimize=medium)

CFBV
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 26, 2022, 07:26:16 PM
Love kiwi Gina!! :smiley:

... and spanish too. :smiley: ;)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 26, 2022, 07:28:40 PM
MustanGina

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/MustanGina.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/41a92018-2e0d-4964-8ac6-d8aa63160348)

Propulsion is not decided yet.

Is it possible to conceive a turbo jet that works as such but a part of its power is derived to a shaft that moves a propeler? Or a turboprop whose exhaust thrust is relevant (more than marginal)?
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: finsrin on March 27, 2022, 08:31:50 AM
  :smiley:   :smiley:   :smiley:
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 12, 2022, 02:54:40 AM
(https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_2022_02/img00036.thumb.jpg.11b0edc83a2f65985e51f8fe4d94bcad.jpg)
(https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_2022_02/img00033.thumb.jpg.f6687a913512799fba668a850d2ca103.jpg)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: kitnut617 on April 12, 2022, 03:14:02 AM
Quote from: ysi_maniac on March 26, 2022, 07:28:40 PM
MustanGina

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/MustanGina.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/41a92018-2e0d-4964-8ac6-d8aa63160348)

Propulsion is not decided yet.

Is it possible to conceive a turbo jet that works as such but a part of its power is derived to a shaft that moves a propeler? Or a turboprop whose exhaust thrust is relevant (more than marginal)?

A bit like what I did here.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 30, 2023, 03:19:48 AM
(https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_2023_04/Unbenannt.thumb.jpg.28d285d02b954e020289111f0e27ea2c.jpg)
(https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_2023_04/Unbenannt-1.thumb.jpg.7fca38045a91f66a699e6062842bf007.jpg)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 16, 2023, 04:30:47 PM
Fiat G.91 structure is inspired by F-86 but Gina's nose is IMO just perfect

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/F-86-gina.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (http://"https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/F-86-gina.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds")
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 17, 2023, 11:23:23 PM
Gina with Skyhawk vertical and horizontal planes

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FiatG91-A4_7yKenCBtYufhkspS9he7RN.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FiatG91-A4_7yKenCBtYufhkspS9he7RN.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 19, 2023, 02:17:31 PM
Gina Tucano

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/TucanoJet.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/TucanoJet.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: finsrin on December 19, 2023, 02:48:15 PM
Oh My, never would have guessed.   It does work !
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: upnorth on December 26, 2023, 04:46:22 PM
Quote from: ysi_maniac on December 17, 2023, 11:23:23 PM
Gina with Skyhawk vertical and horizontal planes

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FiatG91-A4_7yKenCBtYufhkspS9he7RN.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FiatG91-A4_7yKenCBtYufhkspS9he7RN.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

That one works very nicely indeed. I had to look twice to see the Skyhawk bits, they blend into the Gina well.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: robunos on December 26, 2023, 06:38:11 PM
Or a Gina nose on a Skyhawk . . .


cheers,
Robin.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 28, 2023, 01:25:53 AM
Skyhawk was reduced :D
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: upnorth on December 28, 2023, 07:10:56 PM
Quote from: ysi_maniac on December 28, 2023, 01:25:53 AM
Skyhawk was reduced :D

I suspected so, but it still works well with the overall look of the Gina.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: apophenia on December 29, 2023, 09:04:11 AM
This RAAF Gina build probably deserves a mention:

-- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=271.msg214342#msg214342
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: ysi_maniac on January 26, 2024, 05:52:43 PM
Fiat G.91Y equipped with AGAVE radar

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/G91Y-agave.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/G91Y-agave.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: apophenia on February 03, 2024, 05:33:24 AM
I knew that the G.91 formed the basis for Fiat Aviazione's first take on the V/STOL G.95. What I hadn't noticed was that one variation on that early theme moved the wings higher.

On this sketch, note the new main undercarriage arrangement and extra side intakes for the added vectoring engines.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 04, 2024, 12:57:32 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: M.A.D on February 04, 2024, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: apophenia on February 03, 2024, 05:33:24 AM
I knew that the G.91 formed the basis for Fiat Aviazione's first take on the V/STOL G.95. What I hadn't noticed was that one variation on that early theme moved the wings higher.

On this sketch, note the new main undercarriage arrangement and extra side intakes for the added vectoring engines.

That's an awesome find thanks apophenia!
You wouldn't happen to know a time frame from when Fiat went from STOL G.95 to the actual production G.95?

MAD
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: apophenia on February 05, 2024, 06:42:18 AM
Quote from: M.A.D on February 04, 2024, 06:45:09 PM
That's an awesome find thanks apophenia!
You wouldn't happen to know a time frame from when Fiat went from STOL G.95 to the actual production G.95?

Cheers M.A.D ... and here's my CTOL variation of that theme: https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg215553#msg215553

The P.1127 concept to Kestrel FGA.1 to Harrier GR.1 gestation (under ASR.384) took just over a decade (Spring 1957 to Dec 1967). The vectoring-thrust BE53 Pegasus turbofan was radical but its core was the proven BS Orpheus turbojet. By contrast, the Fiat designs were using unproven engine types ... which would likely extend development time.

So ... guesstimating ... from G.95 concept to production time might be 1963 to 1975 or thereabouts.

On powerplants, the early-ish G.95/3 was to have twin Bristol Siddeley BS.94s (Orpheus replacements) for propulsion plus Rolls-Royce RB.162 liftjets (4 x RB.162s in drawings, mentions of x 5). The BS.94 was a turbojet derivative of the BS.75 turbofan (a scaled-down BS.58 'Straight-Through Pegasus' - itself a mishmash of BS.53  and Olympus 301). The RB.162 would eventually be flown in the Mirage IIIV, VAK 191B, and Dornier Do 31 but was really only 'proven' as a boost engine for the Trident airliner. You can see where this would go ...

Thing is, none of that could happen. A change at the top of Fiat resulted in a desire to divest the aviation side of the business. Of course, the Italian government couldn't allow Fiat Aviazone to disappear altogether. Their two moves were to fold the Fiat G.95/6 into the German VJ 101D programme (in April 1964) and to resurrect the stalled G.222 as a CTOL transport. Alfa Romeo Avio was also kept going (eventually forming a core part of Fiat Avio). So, Rome was able to keep Fiat Aviazione alive long enough to make it part of state-owned Finmeccanica (as Alenia). But the G.95 was Fiat's last aircraft design (and the G.222/C-27) their last production type.
Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: apophenia on February 08, 2024, 10:50:40 AM
I don't know much about it but the Fiat G.291 project was a final attempt to further develop the basic G.91 'Gina'. This was part of a programme called Studi 3-1x which introduced varying degrees of change to the base G.91Y 'Yankee' airframe. Of those 3-1x studies, the G.291 was proceeded by the equally elusive Fiat G.91E and G.91Y-2 models.

The ultimate Studio 3-1x concept was the G.291 which adopted a new wing. What little can be gleaned is that this new wing's trailing edge was kinked - looking less like a Sabre and more like an F-100. The key point seems to have been increasing flap effectiveness. Supposedly there was be two more wing pylons. I don't know what this new arrangement was meant to be (although I suspect a set of missile pylons set further outboard).

The 'Gina'  fuselage was said to be retained but I'm not sure how literally that is meant to be taken - the attached photo of the wind tunnel model seems to show a lengthened fuselage. The tailcone also looks less scalloped but, alas, I have no idea what engine type(s) was being considered.

Anyway, the G.291 was less dramatic a change than the various V/STOL 'Gina' schemes ... and certainly more readily 'modelable'. BTW, I got the attached image here:

-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/fiat-aviazione-projects.31824/#post-351944 (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/fiat-aviazione-projects.31824/#post-351944)

My take on the Fiat G.291 project can be seen here:
-- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg215706#msg215706 (https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg215706#msg215706)

Title: Re: Fiat G-91, G-95, aso ...
Post by: apophenia on February 08, 2024, 10:52:47 AM
The entire Studi 3-1x series is mysterious enough to provide some decent whif-fodder. Rather than guessing at how to match Studi 3-1x models to Fiat model numbers, I'll just list the 3-1x numbers mention by The Aviationist in Ghiblis over the boot. These are:

- Studio 3-10 : Re-winged G.91Y.
-- Revised wing planform with kinked trailing edges in an attempt to increase flap effectiveness.

- Studio 3-11 : Higher-powered 3-10.
-- Revised wing planform combined with higher-output J85-GE-21 afterburning turbojets. [1]

- Studio 3-13A: Much higher-powered 3-11.
-- Wings as per 3-10 and 3-11. 2 x Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca Adour Mk.102 turbofans - producing 5,110 lbf dry and 7,300 lbf in full reheat. [2]

- Studio 3-15 : 'Bicycle' undercarriage arrangement; 2 x 30 mm DEFA cannons.
-- Presumably, that undercarriage was chose to free-up even more wing space for pylons. Engine was to be a single 9,275 lbf General Electric TF34 turbofan. [3]

- Studio 3-16 : Higher-powered, conventional undercarriage arrangement.
-- As per 3-13A, 2 x Adour Mk.102 turbofans. The model 3-16T was to be a 2-seat variant

- Studio 3-17 : Single-engined variant.
-- Powered by a single Turbo-Union RB.199 turbofan engine producing 9,100 lbf dry and 16,400 lbf wet.

No details are given for Studi 3-12 or 3-14. All of these concepts were intended to satisfy the AMI's CBR.80 (Caccia Bombardiere Ricognitore per gli anni 80) requirement. That would be eclipsed by the AM-X (Aeronautica Militare-X) requirement which was answered by Aeritalia 'clean sheet' Studio 3-20 which ultimately leads to today's AMX International ground-attack aircraft. For the full AMX development story, see:

-- https://theaviationist.com/special-reports/ghiblis-over-the-boot-the-story-of-the-amx-in-the-aeronautica-militare-italiana/

____________________________________

[1] Producing 3,500 lbf dry and 5,000 lbf wet versus 2,725 lbf dry and 4,080 lbf in reheat for the G.91Y's twin J85-GE-13As (which, I assume, were retained for Studi 3-10). The longer J85-GE-21 had a 9-stage compressor whereas the J85-GE-13A had 8-stages.

[2] Note, this is the same power as available to the Sepecat Jaguar but in a lighter airframe (Jag MTOW 15,700 kg; original G.91Y MTOW 8,700 kg).

[3] There is no mention of afterburning for the TF34 but that can probably be assumed.