Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 29, 2012, 12:56:42 AM

Title: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 29, 2012, 12:56:42 AM
A spot for the discussion of all things related to the Sikorsky S-58 (H-34 Seahorse, Seabat, Chocktaw, Blackfoot) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_H-34)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Sikorsky_S-58_landing_c.jpg/300px-Sikorsky_S-58_landing_c.jpg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_H-34)


and Westland Wessex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Wessex) 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Wessex_1982.JPG/300px-Wessex_1982.JPG) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Wessex)

Click on html or thumbnail to view Wikipedia references



Cobra Company (http://www.cobracompany.com/) offers these H-34 conversion and detail sets:

Cobra Company 48057 - 1/48th scale H-34 detail set (for the Revell kit) (http://www.cobracompany.com/48057.htm)
Cobra Company 48029 - 1/48th Scale S-58T Conversion Set (for the Revell kit) (http://www.cobracompany.com/48029.htm)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 29, 2012, 02:21:42 AM
Hmmm...attack chopper version with Mi-8 style rocket pods on outriggers?
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 29, 2012, 02:38:34 AM
How about using the main rotor and tail rotor from an H-60 Blackhawk/Seahawk?  A small improvement over the original parts as a subtle upgrade and it would look even better with the S-58T conversion applied to the nose :)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on October 29, 2012, 02:39:36 AM
Riptide flashbacks. :-\ :-\ :o ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on October 29, 2012, 04:18:14 AM
Hmmm...attack chopper version with Mi-8 style rocket pods on outriggers?

That brought back a memory ---

years ago I did a Wessex with four Harrier Sneb RP pods, I had them mounted two each on that double bomb/pod carrier gizmo that came with the Airfix Harrier GR.1 back then, fixed to some outriggers.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: dy031101 on October 29, 2012, 11:39:16 AM
If one mentions H-34, then I'll have to mention the PA-97 Helistat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piasecki_PA-97)...  ;D

... and wonder what it might be capable of other than being a flying crane.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 30, 2012, 11:48:12 AM
I do not know if this is Gallery Models or Trumpeter since I have read on other forums that Trumpeter is the actual source of the molds for the new Sikorsky H-34 kits.  Just to let you know, there are now two in-box reviews uploaded at CyberModeler of this model kit. 

Gallery Models 1/48 H-34 US Marines (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/gallery/kit_gallery_64101.shtml)

Gallery Models 1/48 H-34 US Navy Rescue (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/gallery/kit_gallery_64102.shtml)

To further add to the confusion both kits have the same stock number which could be an error made by the reviewer of these two kits. 
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on November 30, 2012, 12:21:34 PM
Hmmm...attack chopper version with Mi-8 style rocket pods on outriggers?
Adapt the approach of the ESSS on the Black Hawks and Naval Hawks with the main outrigger tied to a fitting where the upper MLG leg ties to the fuselage and a support strut that comes up from a fitting down with the lower MLG strut mounts.  Add in the S-58T conversion and other upgrades and you'd have a good assault/attack chopper.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on November 30, 2012, 12:34:05 PM
Salivates over the Gallery kit, draws a blank regarding what if's.   But I'm sure the Norwegians could use it somehow.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 30, 2012, 12:41:13 PM
Salivates over the Gallery kit, draws a blank regarding what if's.   But I'm sure the Norwegians could use it somehow.

Kit bash with something that has podded engines like a CH-53 or AH-64.  Mount the engines above the troop compartment on either side of the transmission.  You then have a big empty space up front for a lot of machine guns, grenade launchers, and cannons. 
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on November 30, 2012, 01:37:10 PM
Perhaps use the engine nacelles from a 1/72 CH-53 kit?  They should be about the right size for the engines you'd fit in 1/48 (thinking roughly the same engine fit as the Sea King, at least in terms of engines used).
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on November 30, 2012, 02:21:37 PM
That would make a Lutefiskwaggen.   ;D
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on December 01, 2012, 02:09:43 AM
Heck if yer gona go for podded engines, go all the way and go S-56 style.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Pima_Air_%5E_Space_Museum_-_Tucson%2C_AZ_-_Flickr_-_hyku_%28127%29.jpg/800px-Pima_Air_%5E_Space_Museum_-_Tucson%2C_AZ_-_Flickr_-_hyku_%28127%29.jpg)

 ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on December 01, 2012, 02:45:01 AM
There's one of those outside the Evergreen Museum in McMinville Jon, could upgrade the engines to R-4360's and add propellers to the engine fronts ---

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Misc%20Photos/S56_zps27382a5d.jpg)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 01, 2012, 03:30:01 AM
Heck if yer gona go for podded engines, go all the way and go S-56 style.

Amen!!!
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 01, 2012, 03:31:46 AM
could upgrade the engines to R-4360's and add propellers to the engine fronts ---


Why not go further and remove the rotor, push the engines out a little further, add bigger props (maybe even contra-rotating units) and make the pods themselves tiltable... ;)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 01, 2012, 03:50:46 AM
Heck if yer gona go for podded engines, go all the way and go S-56 style.
<snip>
 ;D  ;D

That would defeat the purpose of modifying the H-34 kit if you were going to start with the H-37 Mojave :) 

I remember seeing a few of the H-34 and H-37 in flight and on the ground near the Gatun Locks in what was the Panama Canal Zone during the Cuban Missile crisis. 
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 16, 2015, 04:10:33 PM
And to get those creative juices flowing, here's a little inspiration:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg1_zps48221857.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg3_zps39edd8b3.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg4_zpsa6cbb0bf.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg2_zpse6775ad1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 18, 2015, 10:17:56 PM
Wessex was apparently certified for AS12 but how about Sea Skua, Maverick, or even TOW.  20mm door guns?
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 PM
Hope the pilot had some good ear protection --  :o
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 19, 2015, 02:15:40 AM
Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 19, 2015, 04:46:49 AM
S-58T or equivalent in various commuter airliner markings?  Once upon a time (roughly 54 years ago), my dad treated me to a "round robin" flight on a standard S-58 of Chicago Helicopter Airways from Midway to , the now departed, Meigs Field to O'Hare and back to Midway.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on January 19, 2015, 10:49:27 AM
Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

If we had been more closely aligned to the UK still, I don't doubt we would have seen it.   Thing was, by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters, "our great and powerful friends" had been changed to Washington.  The UH-1 was cheaper and easier to operate and was rapidly becoming their standard troop helicopter so we followed suit.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 19, 2015, 11:12:55 AM
Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

Could well have happened, particularly if we followed, not just the RAF model, but the RN Commando Carrier and and USN LPH / USMC models of helicopter operations.  Conversion of HMAS Sydney into a Commando Carrier / LPH instead of a fast troop transport and the Wessex becomes a very sensible option, it was a contender for the RAAF instead of the Iroquois anyway.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on January 19, 2015, 08:57:51 PM
Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

If we had been more closely aligned to the UK still, I don't doubt we would have seen it.   Thing was, by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters, "our great and powerful friends" had been changed to Washington.  The UH-1 was cheaper and easier to operate and was rapidly becoming their standard troop helicopter so we followed suit.

Plus the fact your new 'great and powerful friends' had a war going on right off your north coast
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 19, 2015, 09:57:41 PM
Actually if the RAAF were flying Wessex as SAR helicopter, the mission the UH-1B was initially acquired for and also the initial mission the RAN desired it for, it would have increased the chance of the UH-1 being acquired for and operated by the Army as Vietnam hotted up.  Wessex could have continued serving the RAAF and RAN in the SAR / utility role into the 90s, possibly longer, and for a shorter time as a RAN FAA ASW platform and Commando helicopter, while the Army relied on the Iroquois and Sioux (later Iroquois, Kiowa and Cobra).
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on January 20, 2015, 06:48:35 AM
Personally, I like the turbine powered ones
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on January 20, 2015, 07:38:28 AM
Using the rotor blade parts from the Academy UH-60 kit to improve on the Revell H-34 kit.  Replacing the main and tail rotors with the same parts from the UH-60.  Both aircraft are approximately the same size so there is that to consider and the H-60 rotors would certainly give it a different look.  Add in the S-58T twin-turbine nose conversion from Cobra Company and you have a quick and easy what-if.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on January 20, 2015, 10:16:50 AM
Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

If we had been more closely aligned to the UK still, I don't doubt we would have seen it.   Thing was, by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters, "our great and powerful friends" had been changed to Washington.  The UH-1 was cheaper and easier to operate and was rapidly becoming their standard troop helicopter so we followed suit.

Plus the fact your new 'great and powerful friends' had a war going on right off your north coast

Well, it's actually about 1500-2000 km off our north coast. Its not as if Vietnam is the next island over...  I did allude to it when I mentioned "by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters."
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 21, 2015, 12:26:58 AM
PMSL, its still closer to Australia than Darwin is to any of the other capitals😊
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 21, 2015, 02:22:38 AM
Further to my Australian Assault/Troop Transport proposal, what about a "Bushranger" variant armed similar to the Huey Bushrangers:

(http://www.ipas.com.au/images/Photo_Gunship%20image%20AWM%20P05002%20copy.gif)
(http://www.dontgivvafuq.com/misc/pics/nam/uh1/raaf_bushranger.jpg)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Geoff on January 21, 2015, 03:30:03 AM
I have a German naval Wessex instead of the H-34 planned.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on January 21, 2015, 08:55:00 AM

Plus the fact your new 'great and powerful friends' had a war going on right off your north coast

Well, it's actually about 1500-2000 km off our north coast. Its not as if Vietnam is the next island over...

Yes Brian, I knew that, it was a 'tongue-in-cheek' comment   ----  maybe I should have used this smiley   :P
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 21, 2015, 01:37:23 PM
Further to my Australian Assault/Troop Transport proposal, what about a "Bushranger" variant armed similar to the Huey Bushrangers:

([url]http://www.ipas.com.au/images/Photo_Gunship%20image%20AWM%20P05002%20copy.gif[/url])
([url]http://www.dontgivvafuq.com/misc/pics/nam/uh1/raaf_bushranger.jpg[/url])


Interesting, I always thought the rockets and miniguns were on the same mounts.  Actually looks like there would be clearance issues for the rockets but obviously not otherwise the configuration wouldn't have seen service.

A Rhodesian gunship version with multiple cannon.  One in each door and another fixed, forward firing.

How did the Wessex do in hot and /or high situations?  Obviously the twin turbine models would have been superior to the singles.  I wonder how it would have performed in comparison to the single turbine Iroquois?

Another thought, Sikorsky introduced the S-61, and moved through larger and larger iterations through to the CH-53E (now the new 53K) and introduced the S-70 as their new utility / tactical transport, how about if they continued with an S-58 sized utility / tactical type for the USMC instead of the Sea Knight?  Something that Westland could build for the RAF instead of the Puma and could be continually developed through to today instead of the S-92 as a competitor to the Puma, Super Puma, Cougar, NH90 etc?
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on January 21, 2015, 02:10:45 PM
Further to my Australian Assault/Troop Transport proposal, what about a "Bushranger" variant armed similar to the Huey Bushrangers:

([url]http://www.ipas.com.au/images/Photo_Gunship%20image%20AWM%20P05002%20copy.gif[/url])
([url]http://www.dontgivvafuq.com/misc/pics/nam/uh1/raaf_bushranger.jpg[/url])


Fire-Power Unlimited Inc. 8)

Sometimes called "Fpui!" - 'coz that's what happens down-range! ;D

(OK, I made that up. ;) )



One of the failings for the H-34/Wessex family for ground force operations, & one of the reasons they lost out to the smaller UH-1 & Lynx, is their height.

While this makes them great for SAR & ASW type operations, it just makes them a bigger target & less stable on touch-down (too narrow for their height) during ground op's with no significant improvement in capacity or flexibility over smaller, lighter helo's like the UH-1 & Lynx.

Further development for naval, coast watch or coast guard type activities would be right up their alley, though.

However, in Whif World, if there were problems with the UH-1's & Lynx's development or production, then H-34/Wessex alternatives would be a logical move.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on January 21, 2015, 03:51:15 PM
RAAF were the ones who developed the twin M60 pintle mount but it's never as far as I know been used by anybody else.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 21, 2015, 10:29:15 PM
Four M-60s, four times the stoppages and four times the grief.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on January 22, 2015, 08:35:04 AM
Airborne M60s are usually kept cleaner and fired less than the ground ones so were more reliable.   It wasn't the best design by far but it could be made to work if kept clean.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on January 23, 2015, 01:08:53 AM
Bah! The RAM'll be using L7 GPMG's anyway! ;)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on January 23, 2015, 09:03:19 PM
Bah! The RAM'll be using L7 GPMG's anyway! ;)

What sort of marines rely on 7.62mm? .50cal all the way!  ;)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on January 24, 2015, 08:06:10 AM
Bah! The RAM'll be using L7 GPMG's anyway! ;)

What sort of marines rely on 7.62mm? .50cal all the way!  ;)

Ones who know they'll have to carry the b@st@rds all the way! ::)






I was talking about for the pictured twin-mount, thou knowest! ;)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 03, 2017, 05:48:22 PM
BeauWessex: VTOL autogyro intended for special operations

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/BeauWessex.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/BeauWessex.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on September 04, 2017, 05:22:38 AM
Inspiring concept  :smiley:
Is another wanna build.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 05, 2017, 04:22:25 PM
Attack helo with:
-Vestigial wings intended to carry weapons or tanks.
-Jet based in Pegasus that moves rotors too. Nose intake. Maybe 2 or 4 swivelling nozzles.
-Aden cannon ventral pods.

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/Wessex_1.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/Wessex_1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 21, 2017, 06:44:36 AM
You take two RW models

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/SeaKingWessex.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/SeaKingWessex.jpg.html)

... and then you get two nice whifs

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/SeaKingWessexCross.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/SeaKingWessexCross.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on October 21, 2017, 10:42:19 AM
Thatz first class melding of designs.  Like both  :smiley:
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on October 21, 2017, 11:59:20 AM
I see an amphibian that is not-frog and not-salamander.
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: ysi_maniac on January 29, 2024, 09:12:18 PM
8)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/WessexHuey.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (http://"http://"https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/WessexHuey.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds"")
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: apophenia on January 30, 2024, 12:28:10 PM
Been there, done that  ;)

-- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg94071#msg94071
Title: Re: Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Kerick on January 30, 2024, 01:17:09 PM
Stop now! I have too many projects already!!  :o







Carry on! This is really a lot of fun!