Modelling > Other
Japan fights on Allied Side during WWII
GTX_Admin:
Hi folks,
A scenario mentioned a little bit elsewhere already, but now due for its own thread.
What if, just in WWI, Japan decided to fight alongside Britain against the Germans? Some possible outcomes:
Japanese/British A6Ms escorting British Bombers to Berlin...no need for P-51...
Japanese G4M bombers operating alongside British bombers...
Japanese D3A "Val" dive bombers supporting BEF & French forces in Europe...
Japanese B5N Kates operating from British or Japanese carriers in Atlantic...
What else could happen?
Regards,
Greg
Maverick:
Perhaps the Japanese designs would benefit from Allied experience with regards to armour for starters. I for one would hate to be flying around in a Betty when the Germans turned up.
Regards,
John
Silver Fox:
You have to bend history and alliances a bit... but it can be done.
The existing non-aggression pact between Hitler and Stalin expands. Germany will take western Europe, Russia will take the east. Russian imperialism leads to the invasion of Manchuria. Chinese Communist flock to the Soviet banner, the Japanese counter-invade in support of Kuomintang forces.
America largely stays out of the war, isolationist policies play a large role in this decision. Tensions across the 49th parallel rise after HMCS Athabaskan hunts down and sinks DKM Atlantis, which was flying the US flag at the time. A USCG cutter which responds to Atlantis' radio calls for help is bluntly told to "Mind it's own bloody business!".
The stage is set for the next phase.
raafif:
With the US out of the war, they supply all sides - Allied & Axis with raw-materials & parts (good ol' Capitalism) but not complete aircraft, tanks etc (that would drag them into the war). More manufacturing in Australia (tanks) & Sth Africa (aircraft) - Canada still builds Hampdens, Lancasters etc.
With so much extra sea traffic, the naval war steps up -- with no Pacific War, UK doesn't lose its far-east battleships so is in a better position to hunt the (many more) German Milch-cow submarines & merchantmen.
No Pacific War or Eastern Front, so more forces are available to fight in a bigger Western European war thus extending the war's time-frame (1939-1950) ? Sth Africa & Australia take over most fighting against German & Italian forces in Nth Africa which lasts longer (1944) ?
P-40 is not built (Hawk-75 remains in production for USAAF till 1945) .... The Mustang (a British-commissioned design) is available with Merlin engine from the start --- or would it even be wanted vs more Spitfires built in Sth Africa, Canada & Japan ?? (factor in Air Min "not designed here" philosophy)
With no military incentive the B-17 doesn't evolve much & no B-24, B-26, Avenger etc etc - only UK / Japanese types.
The Hudson is a Canadian conversion of civil Lockheed 18s sold at cost+ in a secret deal with the (Canadian) manager of the Burbank facility. German spies in the US knew something was up but couldn't find out just what. A cover was that the Canadian Forestry Service was buying them to spot fires in an expected dry summer season. Hudsons were flown to CFS in Canada wearing civil registration & CFS badges. CFS helped to hide the number of aircraft bought by often repainting Hudsons written-off in training in their own markings (often with duplicate registration numbers) & parking them on conspicuous airports.
Avro Lincoln enters service in Feb. 1944.
Germany/Russia Pact means the T-34 isn't built as no need for it. Hence no inspiration for the better ballistic shape of the Panther or KingTiger -- Russia supplies first the KV-1, then JS-I to Germany's Heavy Panzer troops instead.
Russian licence-built Pz-IV .....
The Sentinel Tank is built in Australia for Commonwealth forces as the Sherman doesn't exist (only the Lee/Grant). Sentinel comes in 3 versions -- 6pdr, then 17pdr & the twin-25pdr for infantry support. For their troops in Manchuria, Japan buys some 6pdrs for their "Heavy" tank units but take most of the "infantry-support" twin-25pdr production.
South Australia's Chulora Locomotive Works (Tanks) gets the Queen's "Royal Certificate" for best improved production rates in June 1942. Due to this increased production, Tirpitz & Bismark are dispatched to the southern Indian Ocean to sink the convoys heading for Britain. Bismark is torpedoed by Japanese aircraft based out of Perth, wrecking its rudder -- after a 3-day battle, she is sunk by HMAS Sydney & the Emperor Hirohito (Japanese-built sister-ship to Hood).
No US participation = no Atomic bomb.
Who wins the Second Great European War ??
PIC ... Infantry-support version of the Sentinel
upnorth:
--- Quote from: Silver Fox on April 11, 2012, 09:09:33 AM ---You have to bend history and alliances a bit... but it can be done.
The existing non-aggression pact between Hitler and Stalin expands. Germany will take western Europe, Russia will take the east. Russian imperialism leads to the invasion of Manchuria. Chinese Communist flock to the Soviet banner, the Japanese counter-invade in support of Kuomintang forces.
--- End quote ---
That's not too hard to imagine. From the Meiji Restoration in 1868, Japan and Tsarist Russia had their fair share of battles to determine influence over large sections of south east Asia. Any peace between Imperialist Japan and the Soviet Union would be a tenuous one at best I would think.
One thing to bear in mind, considering Japan's strong pre WWII militaristic and imperialistic mindset, is if a long term alliance could be maintained between them and Britain when it came to Japan actually respecting British territories in Asia.
Whatever you do to bend history for this story, you'd pretty much have to make the bend at 1868 or have the Sino-Japanese War or one of the Russo-Japanese wars come out differently.
By most every account, theimperialist mind set of pre WWII Japan was that of complete ethnic superiority. They wanted to exist at the same level of power as the major powers of the day, so building their empire was their main focus and they were quite despotic in the process. I have a feeling that any alliance between pre WWII Japan and Britain would be closer in nature to a non aggression treaty than a true alliance.
It would be a delicate alliance at best and I dare say doomed to collapse. Without provoking America into a war in the Pacific, there would really be no incentive for imerialist Japan to change their viewpoints in regards to their own ethnic superiority. As such, I think all hell would break loose on the Asian continent eventually with Britain trying to hold onto her colonies there while Japan and the Soviets were driving for control over it.
You just can't forget that Pre WWII Japan and post WWII Japan were very different places with very different mindsets. Night and day really.
it would take something like the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs to create that much of an attitude change. If those bombs didn't come from America, they'd probably be coming from the Soviets.
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