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Scottish Armed Forces GB

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Weaver:
Scotland is due to have a refererendum in September 2014 about whether or not to leave the United Kingdom and become a separate country. Apparently the pro-independence party plan to have fully separate armed forces, and there was an interesting article in Air Forces Monthly about what an independent Scottish air force might look like.

I don't want us to get into the politics of this (see FAIR WARNING below), but from a purely hardware point of view, it's an interesting and timely GB possibility:

What would you buy for your armed forces if you were in change of an independent Scotland?

What do you see as your strategic and tactical roles?

Would you want to contribute to international operations overseas or just do national defence?

What resources would/could you devote to it?

Would you "buy British", based on proximity, interoperability and the fact that most of your personnel will be ex-UK armed forces, or would you seek to avoid that to develop a distinctly different character for your armed forces?


For non-political reference (true as far as I know but I'm not the expert so by all means correct me if neccesary):

1. The nationalists see an independent Scotland joining the Commonwealth, the EU and NATO.

2. The nationalists see Scottish air-defence (and presumably land and sea too) as being separate, not shared with or contracted out to the rest of the UK, and with "fast jet capability".

3. According to the RUSI (Royal United Services Institute) report which prompted the article, an air force of around 2,500 with a total of about 60 aircraft (all types) is achievable. The article didn't go into Army and Navy issues. RUSI's figures may be contestable, and there may be other analyses out there.


Of course, we don't have to take things too seriously in Whiff World, so if you want to let your imagination roam free then by all means do so. This might extend from simply inventing and putting Scottish markings on a favorite but unlikely type, to giving the country and entire defence industry and building/drawing an entirely original type. Another possibility might be to retcon it: what if Scotland was always independent, going back to whatever era you fancy in military history (the avoids excluding those who think the only "proper" aeroplanes are the ones with propellors....)

Spinners did a few Scottish Air Force and English Air Force profiles over on What If Modellers in early March: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,18821.120.html (reply 1061 onwards).


FAIR WARNING:

This is a highly contentious political issue in the UK, with increasingly strident and harsh language being employed on both sides, so:

1. PLEASE keep the politics out of this thread or the Mods may well shut it down,

2. By all means go looking for plans, figures and budgets, but bear in mind that there's hardly anything that's been said on this subject that hasn't been immediately challenged by some other party. I therefore strongly advise against taking any real-world article or proposal as "gospel", including the RUSI study I mentioned earlier.

To give you a flavour of the debate, and the difficulty in establishing credible figures and plans, see this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/14/scottish-military-fantasy-defence-secretary

GTX_Admin:
There is an argument to stick with common equipment to the rest of the UK at least initially, so that could result in Typhoons etc.  I do however like the idea of going to something such as the Gripen E/F or maybe even the F-35.  Maybe A400s/C390s for transport.  Something such as EMB 145 in Maritime patrol/AEW&C roles.

Will provide a more comprehensive response later on

kitnut617:
I can't see an independant Scotland being any better off than Ireland, which would mean something along the same lines for it's Armed Forces.

Dr. YoKai:

--- Quote from: kitnut617 on April 15, 2013, 04:20:24 AM ---I can't see an independant Scotland being any better off than Ireland, which would mean something along the same lines for it's Armed Forces.

--- End quote ---

 I expect most of you fellows are better informed on the subject than I, but doesn't Scotland have a substantial amount of
North Sea Oil revenue to draw on?

Weaver:
The Scottish nationalists are planning to spend a higher proportion of their GDP on defence than Ireland, but still a lower percentage than the UK. What they'd get for that money is hotly debated.

The RUSI report suggested that MPA would be very important and suggested three or four 2nd hand Orions as a solution. Given that Scotland has 6000 miles of coastline with hundreds of close islands, I'd suggest that a few smaller, simpler coastal patrol types would be a useful addition to that, allowing their Orions to concentrate on the oil fields and the sea lanes to the distant islands. Something like the BN Islander or a Beechcraft twin would seem to fit the bill. Pilatus PC-12 maybe?

If they want fast jets then 2nd hand F-16s would seem the cheapest default solution. Probably wouldn't be able to afford many upgrades beyong the strictly neccessary, but then with maybe only a dozen, they'd be pretty much limited to national air defence anyway. Are there any of those Block 15 ADF ones spare at Davis Monthan?

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