Current and Finished Projects > Stories
A21 Infantry Support Tank - A British StuG Story
Buzzbomb:
Hmmm, very good reading
Remember this build by Claymore on his take on a Lee based support vehicle
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6719.0
apophenia:
robunos: Very interesting to hear about those Sicily campaign M3s sans-turrets! Not too surprising, I suppose, but its amazing how often this happens in whiffery. (Even when I come up with something I regard as truly radical, invariably, Jon quickly comes up with a RW example that's even stranger!)
--- Quote from: robunos on April 06, 2020, 05:53:20 AM ---Again, good stuff, and another mention of my town . . .
--- End quote ---
Cheers Robin. So, how are things in Rock Island? ;D
buzzbomb: Thanks for bringing up Claymore's M3 'Stonewall' FSV ... I'd completely forgotten that brilliant build. (It reminded me of some of the postwar Bundeswehr's twin-barrelled 'casement tank' prototypes.)
In his backstory, Claymore mentions the Brits later replacing 75s with 6-pounders in their 'Stonewalls'. I thought a variation on that theme might be to keep one of the 75s for support fire and replace the other with a 6-pounder (or US 57 mm Gun M1 derivative) for anti-tank use.
Next in my series is a bit of a toss-off based on the Grant hull ...
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While the first Grant Infantry Support Tanks went into battle in the Western Desert, another Grant derivative was being finalized in Canada. Then known as the M.3 Cruiser Tank, this design would enter service as the Tank, Cruiser, Ram in early 1942. Ram makers, Montreal Locomotive Works (MLW), were also anxious to produce an 'assault' version armed with the Grant's 75 mm gun - M.3 Cruiser Infantry Support Tank. This would emerge as the 'Canadian Ram Assault' concept.
The Canadian Interdepartmental Tank Committee had been able to call upon the British Tank Mission for assistance. Much of this help was contributed by armour casting specialist L.E. Carr. Canadian authorities now called upon Carr to design a one-piece casting for the upper hull of the 'Canadian Ram Assault' (the riveted lower hull and running gear being identical to the US-built M3 Grant). This hull design was duly conceived but, in the meantime, the British Tank Mission had concluded that Ted Carr's skills were better employed designing cast turrets in the US. [1]
Despite the loss of Ted Carr's abilities, MLW pressed on with their assault tank concept. This included the preparation of a full-sized, running mockup based on a Grant hull. Intended to demonstrate their machine's ergonomics, representative of the Canadian Army were very impressed. [2] The 'Ram Assault' concept was judged well in advance of anything currently in Commonwealth service. However, it quickly became apparent that the smaller hull castings for the Ram tanks would represent a major challenge for Canadian industry. Accordingly, MLW were ordered to focus on producing the Tank, Cruiser, Ram as quickly as possible.
Below The 'Ram Assault' concept mockup. The upper hull was cast in concrete, the 'cannon' was wood. [3]
MLW was not prepared to completely abandon its 'Ram Assault' concept. To get around the casting limitations, a flat-plate upper hull was designed in-house. This was to go along with the planned M3A6 'rivet-hull Ram' ... but that variant never appeared. In the end, both the 'rivet-hull Ram' and the 'Ram Assault' concept faded away.
(To be continued ...)
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[1] Ted Carr had been with the Mechanisation Board where he was involved with the cast turret for the A12 Matilda infantry tank. Carr also designed the 'British' turret for the Grant while in the US
[2] By contrast, the Department of Munitions and Supply was furious that MLW had used a government asset (in the form of the M3 hull) without explicit permission. Departmental ire eased somewhat when MLW demonstrated that their mockup upper hull was easily removed and the M3 lower hull restored for use.
[3] MLW was postulating an L/48 development of the US M3 75 mm gun (which could be viewed as a direct decendant of the M1897 'French 75'). Unfortunately, such a weapon simply did not exist.
robunos:
--- Quote from: apophenia on April 07, 2020, 04:05:01 AM ---robunos: Very interesting to hear about those Sicily campaign M3s sans-turrets! Not too surprising, I suppose, but its amazing how often this happens in whiffery. (Even when I come up with something I regard as truly radical, invariably, Jon quickly comes up with a RW example that's even stranger!)
Stand Fast on that ! I was mistaken ! It wasn't M3 gun tanks, they'd all been shipped off to Burma, and replaced with Shermans. Rather it was sime Grant Scorpion flail tanks, used during Operation Husky . . .
--- Quote from: robunos on April 06, 2020, 05:53:20 AM ---Again, good stuff, and another mention of my town . . .
--- End quote ---
Cheers Robin. So, how are things in Rock Island? ;D
--- End quote ---
Probably a damn sight better than in Tipton at the moment ! Another 'Police Incident' tonight . . .
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/police-ambulance-crews-descend-tipton-18053628
I never would have thought that the 'pharmaceutical' business could be so hazardous . . .
cheers,
Robin.
GTX_Admin:
--- Quote from: apophenia on April 07, 2020, 04:05:01 AM ---Ram Assault' concept.
--- End quote ---
I thought this was a RAM assault... ;)
apophenia:
--- Quote from: GTX_Admin on April 08, 2020, 02:45:16 AM ---I thought this was a RAM assault...
--- End quote ---
;D
Robin: Well, things do seem to be 'lively' in the Black Country! BTW, I came across a mention of the RW Horseley Bridge & Thomas Piggott providing armour bodies for Standard Beaverette armoured cars in 1941. So, their involvement in my whif scenario isn't entirely fanciful...
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Ad Hoc Infantry Support Tanks in the Western Desert
No A21 series vehicles were ever sent to North Africa. Instead, a range of locally-converted vehicles saw service in the Western Desert The first dedicated tracked artillery support vehicles were conversions of captured Italian vehicles performed at Helwan. Most conversions were simply recovered Carro Armato M11/39 or M13/40 tanks with turrets removed and, in some cases, hull roofs cut away for cooler interiors and quicker dismounts. All such vehicles received the generic designation of Self-Propelled Artillery (SPA).
Some M11/39s retained or were given armaments to back up recce tank units. These were styled as Self-Propelled Artillery - Gun (SPA-G) and, with their Italian origin, perhaps inevitably were dubbed 'Spag Bols'. [1] Generally, the M11/39's 37 mm Vickers-Terni L/40 main gun failed to impress. Where possible, this gun was replaced by a 47 mm cannone da 47/32 AT gun taken from knocked-out M13/40 turrets. In a few cases, Ordnance ML 3-inch mortars were fitted or captured light field artillery.
Top A SPA-G of 'C' Squadron (the 'Kelly Gang') of the 6th Australian Division Cavalry Regiment. 'Kalbarri' (after the Western Australian town?) is armed with a 65 mm infantry gun - the cannone da 65/17 modello 13. This vehicle has been fitted with a large angle-iron rack to hold ammunition cases and string hessian netting from. Although not mounted here, hessian nets had the added advantage of providing a patch of shade fore the vehicle and its crew.
'Kalbarri' is clearly marked with white kangaroos for recognition. This vehicle has likely been freshly delivered from the depot - otherwise she would be festooned personal gear (whereas only the essential billy for brew-ups is in evidence).
With the appearance of the Afrika Korps, many of the British tanks in the Western Desert were outclassed. Both the A9 and A10 Cruiser tanks fell into that unfortunate category. While many A10s had to soldier on regardless, most of the surviving A9s were converted into support vehicles - both gun tractors and anti-aircraft tanks. With its offset driver's position, the A10 hull was better-suited for armed Self-Propelled Artillery - Gun conversions. A host of different guns types were mounted. Most Cruiser SPA-Gs were armed with Ordnance QF 18-pounder Mk 4s but captured 75 mm cannone da 75/32 modello 37 field guns were not unusual.
Bottom An A10 Cruiser SPA-G conversion of an unidentified unit. This vehicle is unusual in mounting a capture German 5 cm Pak 38 (L/60) anti-tank gun. Any opportunity was taken to 'return' shells to their former owners but comparatively few of the German 50 mm guns were ever captured in the Western Desert.
This unidentified A10 Cruiser SPA-G has been provided with a tubular camouflage netting rack over its engine (although, at this point, it seemed to be acting primarily as an airing cupboard).
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[1] The 'Spag Bol' became the 'Spag Bog' which devolved into 'Bog' and then down into plain 'Dunny'.
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