Author Topic: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba '62 FINISHED  (Read 40500 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2015, 03:32:01 AM »
Slight diversion:  Attack Squadron also do an A-4C conversion:



No back to your normal (and I use that term very loosely) program...
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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2015, 05:20:21 AM »
I'm dumb #1: the picture I have of a Scimitar carrying a Red beard also quite clearly shows it carrying a Sidewinder, so the latter is definately back on the menu.

I'm dumb #2: I nicked a couple of outboard pylons from a Hasegawa kit, then drilled new locating holes for them (because the spacing was different) before gluing the wing together. Then I realised that the Airfix kit has outboard pylons in the box, even though it's an A-4B. So now I'm going to have to open another one just to use it's wing as a template to drill the hole right.....

On the upside, the Red Beard has had it's original locating hole filled with a plastic plug (it was much too big) and a couple of wires glued ito it to attache it to the pylon.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2015, 06:45:53 AM »
I'm dumb #1: the picture I have of a Scimitar carrying a Red beard also quite clearly shows it carrying a Sidewinder, so the latter is definately back on the menu.

I'm dumb #2: I nicked a couple of outboard pylons from a Hasegawa kit, then drilled new locating holes for them (because the spacing was different) before gluing the wing together. Then I realised that the Airfix kit has outboard pylons in the box, even though it's an A-4B. So now I'm going to have to open another one just to use it's wing as a template to drill the hole right.....

On the upside, the Red Beard has had it's original locating hole filled with a plastic plug (it was much too big) and a couple of wires glued ito it to attache it to the pylon.
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So the wires in the Red Beard, just sticking up to match with holes in the pylons or something special?
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Offline FAAMAN

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2015, 09:07:55 AM »
Rumor has it Airfix was going to release the kit with bits for an air defense configured A-4B with AIM-9s and 5 pylons that could also be an Argentine Navy A-4Q (the two outer pylons were a retrofit to Bs) and maybe another kit with a new sprue for an A-4C fuselage to enable that version to be modelled.  :P :P They'd have to get their shape issues sorted first :-X

An example of an A-4B carrying AIM-9s;  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A-4B_Skyhawk_of_VA-153_Det.R_in_flight_1964.jpg  , have a gander at the full size image.  :)

Either way just make sure you fill the dump vent on the models spine as it's not a feature of ANY J-65 (nor Avon ;) ) powered A-4 (A-4A, B, C) only J-52 powered E, F, G etc. had this feature.

Also as I posted before, there are quite a few Attack Squadron A-4C conversion sets on ebay for around $13 AUD.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 09:11:32 AM by FAAMAN »
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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2015, 09:10:07 AM »
LOL - I did the same thing with the original wings on my BAS Skyvan.

No the wires in the Red Beard are just for secure attachment. The kit pylons have raised ridge-type attachments to the bombs/tanks, but the Red Beard has a fat hole that fits on a peg in the Buccaneer bomb bay insert. Since it's quite heavy, I wanted it secured with something more than a thin line of glue. There's one wire in an insert in the original hole and one further back to keep it straight.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2015, 09:48:30 AM »
Rumor has it Airfix was going to release the kit with bits for an air defense configured A-4B with AIM-9s and 5 pylons that could also be an Argentine Navy A-4Q (the two outer pylons were a retrofit to Bs) and maybe another kit with a new sprue for an A-4C fuselage to enable that version to be modelled.  :P :P They'd have to get their shape issues sorted first :-X

An example of an A-4B carrying AIM-9s;  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A-4B_Skyhawk_of_VA-153_Det.R_in_flight_1964.jpg  , have a gander at the full size image.  :)

Either way just make sure you fill the dump vent on the models spine as it's not a feature of ANY J-65 (nor Avon ;) ) powered A-4 (A-4A, B, C) only J-52 powered E, F, G etc. had this feature.

Also as I posted before, there are quite a few Attack Squadron A-4C conversion sets on ebay for around $13 AUD.


I've got a couple of rails that look about right, and I thought I had some decent AIM-9Bs, but I realize now that although they're reasonably detailed, their basic shape is still wrong. It never fails to amaze me how random some kit manufacturer's Sidewinders are: it's like they don't want to think too hard about the killy bits. I think I might just do a bit of whifjitsu here and claim that they're UK-made versions with slight differences from the US ones.

I'm not sure I'm bothered about the various vent and hatch issues with the Airfix kit: after all, who's to say what the details would be like on a "real" Avon-Skyhawk since one was never built? Maybe I'll convert the dump vent into a small scoop just to really mess with heads... >:D

I've seen the Attack Squadron conversions on ebay, but I've already got enough Freightdog noses for all the Skyhawks I want to build.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2015, 07:15:12 AM »
I've been thinking about the markings on this one and there's a bit of an issue. Normal FAA practice for the underside of the wings was to have a medium-sized roundel outboard and then a really big serial number inboard of it, with one of the latter being reversed so it was readable from the front. The problem with the Skyhawk is that the wingspan is short and very obstructed by pylons, big drop tanks and the undercarriage fairings. Assuming that the roundels take up all the space outboard of the outer pylon, then to fit the serials in between there and the wing root, they have to be pretty small, they're largely obstructed by drop tanks on the inners, and they're messed up by the undercarriage fairing and doors.

A few other options occure to me:



1. The "by the book" version, but split around the u/c fairings. This would still be blocked by the tanks.
2. Single code, small enough to fit between the u/c fairings.
3. Same as 2, but much larger, to the point where the first and last digits are outboard of the fairings.
4. Single code but on the flaps. This is least likely to be blocked, but the size is limited.

What do you folks think?
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2015, 07:37:50 AM »
Flaps would prob be best and be the most visible in the majority of load outs.
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Offline FAAMAN

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2015, 12:56:06 PM »
For your codes I'd probably stick to the by the book but with the full code outboard of the landing gear fairings and smaller in proportion anti flash roundels.
I'd also be tempted to place the codes inside the flaps, it'd be easy to do with a printed red background to white codes just use white decal paper.
I don't think there'd be much problem with obscuring the codes on the A-4 as it is psychically small and some limits would be put on just what could be done.
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Offline Tophe

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2015, 11:58:16 PM »
What do you folks think?
I like your project but my thinking is not serious, sorry: I would write a short funny code as 007, but this is probably not realist enough for you ;)

Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2015, 03:05:38 AM »
For your codes I'd probably stick to the by the book but with the full code outboard of the landing gear fairings and smaller in proportion anti flash roundels.
I'd also be tempted to place the codes inside the flaps, it'd be easy to do with a printed red background to white codes just use white decal paper.
I don't think there'd be much problem with obscuring the codes on the A-4 as it is psychically small and some limits would be put on just what could be done.

The thing is, the primary purpose of the big underside codes was so that the aircraft could be identified from the ground (bonkers with lov-vis colours, but they did it for real... ::) ) Making them small enough to fit between the u/c fairings and the outboard pylon would pretty much kill that however they were arranged.

Unfortunately, the flaps can't be modelled open OOB on this one, and again, it wouldn't serve the purpose of in-flight identification from the ground. BTW, pre-warning to prepare you for the shock: the inside of the flaps and slats and the edges of the doors on this model are NOT going to be red. The FAA had no history of doing it and didn't even do it on their F-4s, so I think they wouldn't do it on these either. UK aircraft generally have WAY fewer big bright warning symbols than US ones do.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2015, 05:29:46 AM »
Okay following some suggestions over on What If, I've done one Harrier-style with the letters in two rows. I think this works pretty well, if you ignore stores obscuration (as the FAA seemed to do).

I've made the blue darker so it's easier to see, but the final decals would still be light blue.

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"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2015, 07:49:52 AM »
Just a note Harold, most of the underwing serials I've seen of RAF aircraft, had the pylon overlay the numbers/letters, the 4 needs moving closer to the 3 with the pylon over the 4 somewhat -- This is because when the pylon is removed for any length of time, the serial number would look quite odd in appearance. Also I think they should lay parallel with the leading edge, like Brit Phantoms do

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/9/1/0218198.jpg
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 07:56:26 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2015, 05:14:23 PM »
I like the 'Harrier' style codes :D
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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2015, 06:54:00 PM »
Just a note Harold, most of the underwing serials I've seen of RAF aircraft, had the pylon overlay the numbers/letters, the 4 needs moving closer to the 3 with the pylon over the 4 somewhat -- This is because when the pylon is removed for any length of time, the serial number would look quite odd in appearance. Also I think they should lay parallel with the leading edge, like Brit Phantoms do

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/9/1/0218198.jpg


Yes, I agree about the pylons overlaying the letters. I can only find one example of a Harrier with the spacing changed to fit around the pylon and it's a model, not a photo of the real thing.

We're going to have to agree to disagree about the orientation of the letters. I like the Harrier style ones and given the Skyhawk's straight trailing edge, I think it's the natural choice.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2015, 11:12:48 AM »
Quick update: I've been fiddling about making the cockpit flash shields, which has been a patience-trying process of cutting tiny paper templates to size, test-fitting them and then making thin plastic final ones. Obviously, the nightmare scenario would be if the canopy didn't fit after then were in place. Think I've nailed it now, but in the process the cockpit coaming has come apart again, so that's currently drying with a sliver of plastic strip in it rather than filler. Should be able to paint it black, fit the shields, and fit the canopy tomorrow, and then it's off to the paint shop.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2015, 01:38:03 AM »
Yikes!  :o Fitting extra flash shields to any 1/72 cockpit has be difficult, but to something as tiny as a Skyhawk cockpit must be twice so. 
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2015, 03:27:57 AM »
Yikes!  :o Fitting extra flash shields to any 1/72 cockpit has be difficult, but to something as tiny as a Skyhawk cockpit must be twice so.

Yes, I had to trim the top corners off the ejector seat just to get the canopy to fit right, let alone the shield! Very glad I didn't use an aftermarket MB seat now (which would have been "righter" for an FAA machine) since, in between the pilot and the shields, you can barely see it anyway, and it would have been much harder to carve in-situ if it had been white metal or resin.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2015, 08:54:25 PM »
Okay, so here's some pics. Took them yesterday, but....problems... ::)







Canopy is now masked and glued on (very firmly: the rear shield keeps springing it off) so as soon as the attic has warmed up, spraying can commence. :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 09:25:17 PM by Weaver »
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2015, 02:12:50 AM »
Great work.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2015, 02:19:01 AM »
Excellent!!!!

*Read in Mr Burns' voice*
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

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Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2015, 04:29:07 AM »
Cheers! Had a brainwave about the radome too: I'm leaving it in the basic resin colour. It'll get clear coats with everything else, and then I'll paint some thinned brown onto it to get the patchy look of the Bucc S.1 radomes.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2015, 01:41:33 PM »
Coming along brilliantly ;) ;) You could always use a lightened mix of radome tan for the resin nose, then dry brush neat radome tan to get the 'wear'.
"Resistance is useless, prepare to be assembled!"

Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2015, 05:11:28 PM »
Coming along brilliantly ;) ;) You could always use a lightened mix of radome tan for the resin nose, then dry brush neat radome tan to get the 'wear'.

I'm not sure if it was "wear" or just the fibreglass structure showing for lack of paint. Some of them seemed to look like this (i.e. raw fibreglass) when they were pretty new, others seem to have had either a coat of tan paint or a more uniform colour of fibreglass.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Weaver

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Re: FAA Skyhawk - Cuba
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2015, 12:53:20 AM »
White paint:

"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith