Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 506404 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2725 on: April 30, 2021, 02:06:09 AM »
What about a gun pod on one wing tip - maybe a derivative of some thing like below:




Might need to be prepared for asymmetric effects if only on one side though.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2726 on: April 30, 2021, 04:56:21 AM »
Actually, replacing the tip tanks with missile rails would involve some plumbing changes, too, very much like those done for Longhorn wing.  In fact, Learjet 24-218 was the first flying testbed for that wing so I know the changes can be done.  personally, I'd rather see the weapons on wing hard points and the tip tanks left as they are (with appropriate mods to their front ends).

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2727 on: April 30, 2021, 06:40:20 AM »
Greg: I like those gun pods! Any idea what the weapons mounted are? I'm thinking, for 'Learjet interceptors', guns would be mainly for warning shots. So maybe, if aimed wide enough, asymmetric effects wouldn't be a major issue?

Evan: Thanks, it was the Longhorn I was thinking of. I like the look of the modified wingtip tanks. BUt, just to try something different, I had a go at LAU-128/A launch rails on the wing tips. Fuel could be made up with a new cabin fuel tank mounted behind the radar op's position. I haven't shown underwing racks on this version but they'd be handy for hanging ECM pods from (AN/ALQ-131?).

dy031101 had mentioned left-over AN/APG-66V(3) from the F-16V programme. Although this one isn't Taiwanese, I wanted to try a nose installation mod. My scaling was quite rough and I'm wondering if the radome might a little too big. Even if it is, this is going to be one long-nosed puppy!

The only other change was ditiching the hush kits. I had left 'em on the ROCAF Lear (Taiwan being so densely-populated). Still, leaving the hush kits off must be good for a few extra knots.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2728 on: April 30, 2021, 08:17:19 AM »
If you are doing away with the tip tanks, perhaps underwing tanks, as flown on 24-218 for a while, located on the inboard hard point on each wing, would work.  Mind you, you would likely need to remanufacture the wings, replacing spar caps made from lots of bent-up sheet metal with the machined extrusions used on the original FFA fighter design.

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2729 on: May 01, 2021, 02:18:36 AM »
The pods shown above contain 30mm DEFA cannon.  One could also go with something lighter such as a 7.62mm one for 'warning' purposes:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2730 on: May 01, 2021, 03:22:39 AM »
The pods shown above contain 30mm DEFA cannon.  One could also go with something lighter such as a 7.62mm one for 'warning' purposes:

Thanks. Yep, the 7.62 mm pods (loaded with plenty of tracer rounds) would do the trick  :smiley:
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2731 on: May 01, 2021, 01:58:47 PM »
The pods shown above contain 30mm DEFA cannon.  One could also go with something lighter such as a 7.62mm one for 'warning' purposes:

Thanks. Yep, the 7.62 mm pods (loaded with plenty of tracer rounds) would do the trick  :smiley:

100% tracer, that should scare the pants off 'em! ;D
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2732 on: May 02, 2021, 11:25:45 AM »
No backstory here ... just look for an excuse to WHIF an F-4 update.

Major changes include new outer wing panels of extended span but reduced dihedral. On the wingtips are LAU-128 rails for Sidewinders (inner wing racks can take additional AIM-9s). Not shown here are AIM-120s launchers on the sides of the conformal belly tank (which is smaller than that of Boeing's Phantom 2000 proposal).

Other airframes changes are canard surfaces (similar to those on the YF-4E demonstrator). Intakes have been changed to reduce radar signature (and just 'cuz I like diverterless intakes). The vertical tail has a fin-top ECM pod and has been extended slightly by an antenna above.

Faired onto the upper nose is an IRST (Infra Red Search and Track) sensor (inspired by the CF-101). Nose radome remains the same ... but there would have been a range of radar upgrade options.

Powerplants are twin Rolls-Royce RB.188 Super Spey turbofans - slightly re-scaled RB.168s designed as 'drop-in' replacements for General Electric J79 turbojets.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2733 on: May 04, 2021, 07:25:38 AM »
Another robunos rip-off ... this time, based on the de Havilland Australia Sun Moth:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9672.0

The de Havilland Australia Sun Moth II name is all but forgotten today. A major improvement over the original, more cramped Sun Moth I, the prototype Sun Moth II was let down by its underpowered de Havilland Gipsy Six engine. [1] And that might have been the end of the story had the RAAF not experienced some overheating problems with the Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah in their Avro 643 Cadet biplane trainers.

In anticipation of new RAAF Avro Anson patrol aircraft, Canberra funded an improved version of the British engine. The result was the Commonwealth CAC-7 Cricket [2] 7-cylinder radial - with the same displacement as the British Cheetah but with enlarged cooling fins on the cylinder barrels. [3] The Cricket did all that was hoped for it but, before the first Anson entered RAAF service, a pre-production CAC-7 was used to re-engine the prototype DHA-2 Sun Moth II. The intended market, once again, was the Australian Aerial Medical Service. But the 'Flying Doctors' lost out to the RAAF.

In service, the DHA-2M became the de Havilland Australia Dingo - famed for its low-level air drops to jungle-fighting troops in New Zealand. The 375 hp CAC-7 Cricket provided enough power for the Dingo to hang over the Diggers' position on its Handley Page slats while dropping urgent supplies through its belly hatch. (Such mad aerial antics probably being responsible for the DHA-2M's 'Drongo' nickname.)

Illustrated is the prototype 'Panacea II after its conversion to DHA-2M standards.

____________________________________

[1] That original, inline layout being immortalized in the de Havilland Australia logo.

[2] The CAC Cricket was named for the buzzing Black field cricket (Teleogryllus commodus). 

[3] Minor changes to better-suit Australian manufacturing practices and a switch from Claudel-Hobson to US Stromberg NA-R7A carburettors were other modifications. The parallel CAC Cicada - a 420 hp, 1,072 cid (17.57 L) 9-cylinder radial - was not proceeded with (Commonwealth ultimately license-building the Pratt and Whitney Wasp instead).
"I dared to ask for sunshine, and I got World War three
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2734 on: May 04, 2021, 11:42:22 PM »
A very strong resemblance to the future DHC Beaver and Otter in that image.
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Online robunos

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2735 on: May 05, 2021, 05:30:32 AM »
Another robunos rip-off ... this time, based on the de Havilland Australia Sun Moth:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9672.0

The de Havilland Australia Sun Moth II name is all but forgotten today. A major improvement over the original, more cramped Sun Moth I, the prototype Sun Moth II was let down by its underpowered de Havilland Gipsy Six engine. [1] And that might have been the end of the story had the RAAF not experienced some overheating problems with the Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah in their Avro 643 Cadet biplane trainers.

In anticipation of new RAAF Avro Anson patrol aircraft, Canberra funded an improved version of the British engine. The result was the Commonwealth CAC-7 Cricket [2] 7-cylinder radial - with the same displacement as the British Cheetah but with enlarged cooling fins on the cylinder barrels. [3] The Cricket did all that was hoped for it but, before the first Anson entered RAAF service, a pre-production CAC-7 was used to re-engine the prototype DHA-2 Sun Moth II. The intended market, once again, was the Australian Aerial Medical Service. But the 'Flying Doctors' lost out to the RAAF.

In service, the DHA-2M became the de Havilland Australia Dingo - famed for its low-level air drops to jungle-fighting troops in New Zealand. The 375 hp CAC-7 Cricket provided enough power for the Dingo to hang over the Diggers' position on its Handley Page slats while dropping urgent supplies through its belly hatch. (Such mad aerial antics probably being responsible for the DHA-2M's 'Drongo' nickname.)

Illustrated is the prototype 'Panacea II after its conversion to DHA-2M standards.

____________________________________

[1] That original, inline layout being immortalized in the de Havilland Australia logo.

[2] The CAC Cricket was named for the buzzing Black field cricket (Teleogryllus commodus). 

[3] Minor changes to better-suit Australian manufacturing practices and a switch from Claudel-Hobson to US Stromberg NA-R7A carburettors were other modifications. The parallel CAC Cicada - a 420 hp, 1,072 cid (17.57 L) 9-cylinder radial - was not proceeded with (Commonwealth ultimately license-building the Pratt and Whitney Wasp instead).



I'm going to have to start charging licence fees !       ;D


Verr' verr' nice . . . if I had the bits, I'd build one ! (would I be right in thinking the new engine and cowling came from my Helldiver ?).
It's interesting, I've got a few projects in the works, where I will be building several models, to illustrate a design sequence, and here you are, doing the same with your images . . .


cheers,
Robin.

By the pricking of my thumbs, Something Whiff-y this way comes . . .

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2736 on: May 05, 2021, 05:45:05 AM »
Cheers Jeff. I was going for an ur-Beaver vibe (although the canopy is actually Norseman-based).

Robin: Cheques are in the mail  ;)  Like the canopy, the cowling and prop were based on those of the Norseman ... but scaled down to Cheetah size (one of many cheats available to us pixel pushers).

Looking forward to your design sequence builds  :smiley:
"I dared to ask for sunshine, and I got World War three
I'm looking over the wall and they're looking at me!"

Online robunos

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2737 on: May 05, 2021, 09:58:53 PM »
I would prefer Bitcoin . . .   ;D ;D
Looking closer at the image, I can the small differences, reminds me of a Buffalo cowling.   :smiley:
Thinking about it, I've already posted the first part of one of my sequences, with the OWB Sopwith Pup and Hound. I have the Camel, Snipe and Salamander still to do.


cheers,
Robin.
By the pricking of my thumbs, Something Whiff-y this way comes . . .

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2738 on: May 06, 2021, 08:02:06 AM »
... the small differences, reminds me of a Buffalo cowling...

It does look like a Buffalo! Attached is the real deal (AFAIK, only the USAAF UC-64s had the 3-bladed props).

Thinking about it, I've already posted the first part of one of my sequences, with the OWB Sopwith Pup and Hound. I have the Camel, Snipe and Salamander still to do.

Cool! I love the Salamander ... even if the RFC/RAF brass didn't share my enthusiasm for armoured trench strafers  ;D
"I dared to ask for sunshine, and I got World War three
I'm looking over the wall and they're looking at me!"

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2739 on: May 08, 2021, 11:59:33 AM »
No backstory here ... just playin' with the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 (which I always thought needed a bit of slimming down). I'm calling this the M.S.460 C1. [1] Changes are:

- Engine moved forward (anticipating a new, 2-stage supercharger)
- Smoother cowling (improved aerodynamics), relocated supercharger intakes
- Upper nose contours raised (to clear potentially larger ammunition drum)
- Radiator moved aft and fuselage lengthened to compensate for longer nose
- Semi-monocoque wooden  rear fuselage (aft of glazing) to conserve steel
- Semi-retractable tail wheel incorporated into extended rear fuselage
- Vertical tail moved aft (allowing slight increase in elevator size)

The prototype (bottom) lacks exhaust stubs and still has the M.S.406's 20 mm HS 404 moteur-canon. The protduction M.S.460 C1 (top) has thrust-producing exhausts and the new Hispano-Suiza 23 mm HS 407 gun.
__________________________________

[1] Yeah, I know that there was a real M.S.460 project. It was a 1940 (or 1939?) single-seat fighter but who knows what it looked like?
"I dared to ask for sunshine, and I got World War three
I'm looking over the wall and they're looking at me!"

Offline PantherG

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2740 on: May 08, 2021, 01:44:42 PM »
Morane 460 looks very good.....  ;)
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2741 on: May 09, 2021, 02:10:56 AM »
[1] Yeah, I know that there was a real M.S.460 project. It was a 1940 (or 1939?) single-seat fighter but who knows what it looked like?


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2742 on: May 09, 2021, 07:33:17 AM »
Cool! Thanks Greg  :smiley:

Looks a bit like a CAO.200 with Dewoitine influences. Nice!
"I dared to ask for sunshine, and I got World War three
I'm looking over the wall and they're looking at me!"