Modelling > Scenarios
Communist aligned Israel
GTX_Admin:
What if Israel adopted a Communist/Soviet leaning rather then a Western/Captialist one?
One could then possibly see Israeli MiGs and Sukhois and by default (possibly) Arab air arms with Western Equipment . Basically an entire flipping of the coin.
Thoughts? ideas?
raafif:
Don't know about a "Red Israel" but a Communist-friendly one is a possibility -- until they intellectually moved more towards a "thinking" socialism rather than the Soviet "thuggist" model.
Maybe Britain withdraws from the Middle-East pre 1945 so Egypt, Lebanon & Jordan (1950's tourism continuing) would remain pro-British (no Suez war) while Israel becomes pro-Soviet -- just to keep everyone on opposite sides ;)
Many of Israel's intellectual elite in social, military, government & artistic areas came from the Kibbutz movement -- started in 1910 by Communist Jews fleeing Tsarist religious persecution (pre-Communism). In 1920 the political arm of this movement gains power ....
A Socialist govt. would probably have prevented the Israel / Palistine split & may have avoided the "settlers" moving on Gaza today -- Israel / Palistine would still be one country, not two -- depriving neighbouring Arab states of the current main reason to become involved. ((Moslem / Christian / Jewish religious conflicts only erupted within Israel post-1947 due to the creation of the State of Israel, previously all concerned lived peacefully together in the same streets.))
So fewer Mid-East wars ? More diplomacy ? Israel wouldn't have such a large defence industry, the technical ability that has spawned the Merkava Tank & missile-guidance systems (used in all US air-air missiles) would have gone into other areas like medical technology.
On the military side -- being pro-Communist, the IDF would be supplied Soviet weaponry ? -- JS-3Ms then T-55 & T-62 - but with a bigger / better turret.
The IDF actually found that the T-62's 125mm gun was more accurate & over greater distances (on the range) than the Centurions/M-60s 105mm -- but only with a well trained & practised crew, so, in an ambush situation, the IDF could sit their Tiran 6's on a small rise & pick off the enemy at will. The IDF did experimentally apply Blazer armour to their Tirans & they'd still design their Achzarit (T-55-based) APC.
Egypt, Lebanon & Jordan would have Centurions (later upgraded to Oliphant 1 & 2 standard) then Challengers with the Teledyne / Jordanian turretless 130mm gun & auto-loader (turret-crew now in hull) -- Jordan currently calls this still-experimental vehicle the "Al Hussein" MBT with "Falcon 2" turret.
Presume Isreal would initially get Yak-9s & Sturmoviks, Mig-15/17, later Mig-29s or Su-33s etc for the Air Force and modern Soviet patrol boats & subs too ?
Egypt, Lebanon & Jordan get Meteors, Buccaneer, Jaguar etc ?
There was a thread on this over on What-If Modellers in the Ideas Bank but I can't find it now.
upnorth:
You guys just made me take a look back at the Socialist friendly Israel sub plot that I wrote into my Divided Austria story. I hadn't looked at it in quite some time:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=358.15
Basically, I had the reestablished Israel of 1948 spend the bulk of the 1950s and 60s experiencing a great deal of internal friction over how it was to be led.
The Kibbutz movement wanted to go with Marxist leanings while others wanted a more western approach.
Using the Six Day War in the late 1960s as a critical destabilizing event, I had the country plunge into civil war immediately after that conflict.
Clandestine help from the Warsaw Pact helped the Marxist side win the civil war and saw Israel begin to equip itself with Eastern gear from 1970 onwards.
MiG-21 fighters and L-39 Albatros trainers would have been sure things as would Antonov An-12 and An-26 transports.
Generally, I have a feeling that if the world had actually seen a Socialist friendly Israel it would be a mixed bag in terms of military equipment. Not unlike India, with a good bit of both Eastern and Western gear and a strong domestic aerospace industry to support and upgrade it all.
GTX_Admin:
Hmmm...the idea of something similar to India is interesting. A mixed force.
upnorth:
--- Quote from: GTX_Admin on May 19, 2013, 02:55:23 AM ---Hmmm...the idea of something similar to India is interesting. A mixed force.
--- End quote ---
I think that Israel, like India, is in just such a spot geographically and politically that neither east nor west would try to strong arm them too much. This would give the country the luxury of being able to deal with east and west as they choose.
The presence of well developed and capable domestic defense and aerospace industries, such as both India and Israel possess, would also be a factor in getting either country greater latitude in how they could conduct their dealings for military procurement.
Neither country would have to put all their eggs in one basket if they didn't want to and the chances of anyone trying to force them to would be very unlikely from a political standpoint.
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