Modelling > Sea

Invincible Class Strike Cruiser

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Weaver:
The RN's concept started off with each CVA-01 carrier having two Type 82 (HMS Bristol) escorts with Sea Dart and Ikara, but someone then had the bright idea of enlarging one of the Type 82s to take a flight deck and some of the ASW helos, thereby allowing the carrier to have more fixed wing aircraft. This is how the Invincibles ended up with Sea Dart: it was an evolutionary "throwback" to their escort cruiser origins, if you like. By the way, this also gives the lie to the popular story that the term "through deck cruiser" was a political euphemism used to "sneak" carriers through under the politicians' noses. No it wasn't: it was actually a correct description of the ship's original role.

I always thought this was a good idea: since the carrier is the only ship that can do fixed wing, then it should maximise that capability to the exclusion of all else, shifting heavy AAW weapons and ASW helos to other ships.

Following the "air-capable Type 82" model, why not give your original RAN escort cruisers Ikara, a Mk.13 GMLS, a 5" Mk.42 and a squadron of Sea Kings? If they're a late '60s or early '70s build, then they'd probably have steam power rather than gas turbines, so you could have macks that double as radar masts, which is always a useful space-saver on a carrier. That might let you shorten the island a bit, which claws back some deck space used for the extra weapons.

Volkodav:
The ideal would have been similar to the RN concept with a carrier, and escort cruiser and a DLG plus a number of frigates but in whiffdom as with reality cost cutting intrudes and the additional CVS/CVA were never acquired and the escort cruisers, through the addition of harriers, became defacto carriers. 

The first three escort cruisers would have been steam ships with macks and either Tartar for and aft the island instead of Sea Slug on the quarter deck and 3', 4.5" or 5" guns on sponsons port and starboard, fore and aft or maybe the guns and missiles transposed.  i.e. a pair of Mk-13 for and aft and island or four Mk-22 on sponsons.  Maybe I should scan the plan and profile of the escort cruiser and start playing with layouts.

The following pair would have been GT ships based on the Invincible but still incorporating features of the earlier escort cruisers, i.e. the sponsons and the flight deck extending all the way forward.  Possible layout Mk-45 5" or Oto Melara 3" and Sea Wolf (or NATO Sea Sparrow) on each sponson and Mk13 or Mk-26 fore and aft the island.

Weaver:
Here are shipbucket profiles of some of the designs in question:







All images from Shipbucket: http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?dir=Never+Built+Designs

I presume your idea for the original ones would be closer to the 1961 design, but with US weapons? If so, then here are some thoughts:

1.  Sponsoned guns would be too big for the hull, and remember, such guns tended to get removed in refits due to weather damage.

2. The weapon fit you're proposing is too much. Assuming this is the developed Study 21L2 mentioned at the bottom of page 62, then it's displacement was only 13,250 tons. If you still want to carry nine helos, then I'd suggest one Mk.13, one Ikara, one twin 4.5" Mk.VI and two Seacat would be about the limit. Remember that you need fire control radars for all these weapons too, and a "proper" Tartar/SM-1 fit has two target-trackers per launcher, with the same arcs.

3. I don't really see what the big guns are for: surely such precious ships arn't gonig to be risked on NGS missions? If you want to have an inner air defence layer, then I'd suggest the twin Seacats of the RN version, plus maybe a US twin 3" 50 cal in front of the bridge, or several 40mm mountings.

4. Since Ikara was an Aussie weapon of the period, it's hard to imagine them not fitting it to these. It'd be highly useful in the escort role too, since even though the ship has ASW helos, they're not all-weather (particularly in the mid-'60s), they can be slow to react, and they can be tasked with other things. An ASW missile, on the other hand, can be fired in any weather, is fast-reacting and fast flying, and can't be sent to ferry food and photographers to disaster victims.

Volkodav:
I actually like 21M8 in Friedman's British Cruisers and was also thinking about Terrier or Talos replacing Sea Slug but would still prefer multiple Tartar systems and not bothering with Sea Cat.

Had another idea for a back story too.  With the election of a new government in Australia in 1961 urgent attention was given to the deterioration of the Australian military at the very time Indonesia was expanding economically and militarily with Soviet assistance.  It was seen as critical that the run down of the RAN, in particular the FAA be reversed but also that a counter for Indonesia's cruiser Irian be acquired at the earliest opportunity.  This coincided with the RN modernisation plans being hamstrung by, in part, the existence of a number of not truly satisfactory modernised ships that had been procured in place of new construction, so long as these ships remained in RN service there would be no money for modern replacements.  These ships were the carriers Hermes and Victorious and the three Tiger Class cruisers.  In a deal arranged in 1962 all five ships were transferred to the RAN and were replaced in RN service with two fleet carriers and three escort cruisers constructed over the remainder of the 1960s.  Australia went on to order a pair of modified escort cruisers to support the carriers, entering service in 1965 and 70 then another three to progressively replace the Tigers in 1975, 80 and 85.  Victorious was replaced in 1990 and Hermes in 1995 by a pair of purpose designed CVL, specifically engineered to operate Vikings, Hawkeyes and Mirage F-1N/Rafale/Super Hornet, before the first escort cruiser was replaced in 2000.

M.A.D:
All very interesting!!🤔

Sorry I overlooked this post until now😔

MAD

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