Sikorsky H-34/S-58/Westland Wessex Ideas and Inspiration

[Jeffry Fontaine]

A spot for the discussion of all things related to the Sikorsky S-58 (H-34 Seahorse, Seabat, Chocktaw, Blackfoot)




and Westland Wessex 



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Cobra Company offers these H-34 conversion and detail sets:

Cobra Company 48057 - 1/48th scale H-34 detail set (for the Revell kit)
Cobra Company 48029 - 1/48th Scale S-58T Conversion Set (for the Revell kit)

[GTX_Admin]

Hmmm...attack chopper version with Mi-8 style rocket pods on outriggers?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

How about using the main rotor and tail rotor from an H-60 Blackhawk/Seahawk?  A small improvement over the original parts as a subtle upgrade and it would look even better with the S-58T conversion applied to the nose :)

[Daryl J.]

Riptide flashbacks.

[kitnut617]

Hmmm...attack chopper version with Mi-8 style rocket pods on outriggers?

That brought back a memory ---

years ago I did a Wessex with four Harrier Sneb RP pods, I had them mounted two each on that double bomb/pod carrier gizmo that came with the Airfix Harrier GR.1 back then, fixed to some outriggers.

[dy031101]

If one mentions H-34, then I'll have to mention the PA-97 Helistat... 

... and wonder what it might be capable of other than being a flying crane.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I do not know if this is Gallery Models or Trumpeter since I have read on other forums that Trumpeter is the actual source of the molds for the new Sikorsky H-34 kits.  Just to let you know, there are now two in-box reviews uploaded at CyberModeler of this model kit. 

Gallery Models 1/48 H-34 US Marines

Gallery Models 1/48 H-34 US Navy Rescue

To further add to the confusion both kits have the same stock number which could be an error made by the reviewer of these two kits. 

[elmayerle]

Hmmm...attack chopper version with Mi-8 style rocket pods on outriggers?

Adapt the approach of the ESSS on the Black Hawks and Naval Hawks with the main outrigger tied to a fitting where the upper MLG leg ties to the fuselage and a support strut that comes up from a fitting down with the lower MLG strut mounts.  Add in the S-58T conversion and other upgrades and you'd have a good assault/attack chopper.

[Daryl J.]

Salivates over the Gallery kit, draws a blank regarding what if's.   But I'm sure the Norwegians could use it somehow.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Salivates over the Gallery kit, draws a blank regarding what if's.   But I'm sure the Norwegians could use it somehow.

Kit bash with something that has podded engines like a CH-53 or AH-64.  Mount the engines above the troop compartment on either side of the transmission.  You then have a big empty space up front for a lot of machine guns, grenade launchers, and cannons. 

[elmayerle]

Perhaps use the engine nacelles from a 1/72 CH-53 kit?  They should be about the right size for the engines you'd fit in 1/48 (thinking roughly the same engine fit as the Sea King, at least in terms of engines used).

[Daryl J.]

That would make a Lutefiskwaggen.   

[jcf]

Heck if yer gona go for podded engines, go all the way and go S-56 style.


  

[kitnut617]

There's one of those outside the Evergreen Museum in McMinville Jon, could upgrade the engines to R-4360's and add propellers to the engine fronts ---

[GTX_Admin]

Heck if yer gona go for podded engines, go all the way and go S-56 style.

Amen!!!

[GTX_Admin]

could upgrade the engines to R-4360's and add propellers to the engine fronts ---

Why not go further and remove the rotor, push the engines out a little further, add bigger props (maybe even contra-rotating units) and make the pods themselves tiltable...

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Heck if yer gona go for podded engines, go all the way and go S-56 style.
<snip>
  

That would defeat the purpose of modifying the H-34 kit if you were going to start with the H-37 Mojave :) 

I remember seeing a few of the H-34 and H-37 in flight and on the ground near the Gatun Locks in what was the Panama Canal Zone during the Cuban Missile crisis. 

[GTX_Admin]

And to get those creative juices flowing, here's a little inspiration:

[Volkodav]

Wessex was apparently certified for AS12 but how about Sea Skua, Maverick, or even TOW.  20mm door guns?

[kitnut617]

Hope the pilot had some good ear protection -- 

[GTX_Admin]

Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

[elmayerle]

S-58T or equivalent in various commuter airliner markings?  Once upon a time (roughly 54 years ago), my dad treated me to a "round robin" flight on a standard S-58 of Chicago Helicopter Airways from Midway to , the now departed, Meigs Field to O'Hare and back to Midway.

[Rickshaw]

Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

If we had been more closely aligned to the UK still, I don't doubt we would have seen it.   Thing was, by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters, "our great and powerful friends" had been changed to Washington.  The UH-1 was cheaper and easier to operate and was rapidly becoming their standard troop helicopter so we followed suit.

[Volkodav]

Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

Could well have happened, particularly if we followed, not just the RAF model, but the RN Commando Carrier and and USN LPH / USMC models of helicopter operations.  Conversion of HMAS Sydney into a Commando Carrier / LPH instead of a fast troop transport and the Wessex becomes a very sensible option, it was a contender for the RAAF instead of the Iroquois anyway.

[kitnut617]

Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

If we had been more closely aligned to the UK still, I don't doubt we would have seen it.   Thing was, by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters, "our great and powerful friends" had been changed to Washington.  The UH-1 was cheaper and easier to operate and was rapidly becoming their standard troop helicopter so we followed suit.

Plus the fact your new 'great and powerful friends' had a war going on right off your north coast

[Volkodav]

Actually if the RAAF were flying Wessex as SAR helicopter, the mission the UH-1B was initially acquired for and also the initial mission the RAN desired it for, it would have increased the chance of the UH-1 being acquired for and operated by the Army as Vietnam hotted up.  Wessex could have continued serving the RAAF and RAN in the SAR / utility role into the 90s, possibly longer, and for a shorter time as a RAN FAA ASW platform and Commando helicopter, while the Army relied on the Iroquois and Sioux (later Iroquois, Kiowa and Cobra).

[kitnut617]

Personally, I like the turbine powered ones

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Using the rotor blade parts from the Academy UH-60 kit to improve on the Revell H-34 kit.  Replacing the main and tail rotors with the same parts from the UH-60.  Both aircraft are approximately the same size so there is that to consider and the H-60 rotors would certainly give it a different look.  Add in the S-58T twin-turbine nose conversion from Cobra Company and you have a quick and easy what-if.

[Rickshaw]

Subtle whiff:  Australia used the Westland Wessex Mk31B in the Carrier-borne Anti-submarine/ Search and Rescue /Utility role.  What if they (and/or the RAAF/ARA) also used the platform in the troop transport/assault role?

If we had been more closely aligned to the UK still, I don't doubt we would have seen it.   Thing was, by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters, "our great and powerful friends" had been changed to Washington.  The UH-1 was cheaper and easier to operate and was rapidly becoming their standard troop helicopter so we followed suit.

Plus the fact your new 'great and powerful friends' had a war going on right off your north coast

Well, it's actually about 1500-2000 km off our north coast. Its not as if Vietnam is the next island over...  I did allude to it when I mentioned "by the time we needed large numbers of troop transport helicopters."

[Volkodav]

PMSL, its still closer to Australia than Darwin is to any of the other capitals😊

[GTX_Admin]

Further to my Australian Assault/Troop Transport proposal, what about a "Bushranger" variant armed similar to the Huey Bushrangers:

[Geoff]

I have a German naval Wessex instead of the H-34 planned.

[kitnut617]

Plus the fact your new 'great and powerful friends' had a war going on right off your north coast

Well, it's actually about 1500-2000 km off our north coast. Its not as if Vietnam is the next island over...

Yes Brian, I knew that, it was a 'tongue-in-cheek' comment   ----  maybe I should have used this smiley   

[Volkodav]

Further to my Australian Assault/Troop Transport proposal, what about a "Bushranger" variant armed similar to the Huey Bushrangers:

Interesting, I always thought the rockets and miniguns were on the same mounts.  Actually looks like there would be clearance issues for the rockets but obviously not otherwise the configuration wouldn't have seen service.

A Rhodesian gunship version with multiple cannon.  One in each door and another fixed, forward firing.

How did the Wessex do in hot and /or high situations?  Obviously the twin turbine models would have been superior to the singles.  I wonder how it would have performed in comparison to the single turbine Iroquois?

Another thought, Sikorsky introduced the S-61, and moved through larger and larger iterations through to the CH-53E (now the new 53K) and introduced the S-70 as their new utility / tactical transport, how about if they continued with an S-58 sized utility / tactical type for the USMC instead of the Sea Knight?  Something that Westland could build for the RAF instead of the Puma and could be continually developed through to today instead of the S-92 as a competitor to the Puma, Super Puma, Cougar, NH90 etc?

[Old Wombat]

Further to my Australian Assault/Troop Transport proposal, what about a "Bushranger" variant armed similar to the Huey Bushrangers:

Fire-Power Unlimited Inc.

Sometimes called "Fpui!" - 'coz that's what happens down-range!

(OK, I made that up. )



One of the failings for the H-34/Wessex family for ground force operations, & one of the reasons they lost out to the smaller UH-1 & Lynx, is their height.

While this makes them great for SAR & ASW type operations, it just makes them a bigger target & less stable on touch-down (too narrow for their height) during ground op's with no significant improvement in capacity or flexibility over smaller, lighter helo's like the UH-1 & Lynx.

Further development for naval, coast watch or coast guard type activities would be right up their alley, though.

However, in Whif World, if there were problems with the UH-1's & Lynx's development or production, then H-34/Wessex alternatives would be a logical move.

[Rickshaw]

RAAF were the ones who developed the twin M60 pintle mount but it's never as far as I know been used by anybody else.

[Volkodav]

Four M-60s, four times the stoppages and four times the grief.

[Rickshaw]

Airborne M60s are usually kept cleaner and fired less than the ground ones so were more reliable.   It wasn't the best design by far but it could be made to work if kept clean.

[Old Wombat]

Bah! The RAM'll be using L7 GPMG's anyway!

[Volkodav]

Bah! The RAM'll be using L7 GPMG's anyway!

What sort of marines rely on 7.62mm? .50cal all the way! 

[Old Wombat]

Bah! The RAM'll be using L7 GPMG's anyway!

What sort of marines rely on 7.62mm? .50cal all the way! 

Ones who know they'll have to carry the b@st@rds all the way!






I was talking about for the pictured twin-mount, thou knowest!

[ysi_maniac]

BeauWessex: VTOL autogyro intended for special operations

[finsrin]

Inspiring concept 
Is another wanna build.

[ysi_maniac]

Attack helo with:
-Vestigial wings intended to carry weapons or tanks.
-Jet based in Pegasus that moves rotors too. Nose intake. Maybe 2 or 4 swivelling nozzles.
-Aden cannon ventral pods.

[ysi_maniac]

You take two RW models



... and then you get two nice whifs

[finsrin]

Thatz first class melding of designs.  Like both 

[Daryl J.]

I see an amphibian that is not-frog and not-salamander.

[ysi_maniac]

[apophenia]

Been there, done that 

-- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg94071#msg94071

[Kerick]

Stop now! I have too many projects already!! 







Carry on! This is really a lot of fun!