Grumman A-6 Intruder/EA-6 Prowler Ideas and Inspiration

[elmayerle]

Anotehr thought, how about a SV-22/SA-6B team?

[GTX_Admin]

Maybe just use sonobouys launched from underwing pods.

[elmayerle]

Dual SA-6B team, one with sonobuoys and one with offensive armament?  Much like the Grumman Guardian hunter-killer teams?

[Cliffy B]

I scaled some drawings of an S-3 and A-6 and found that an A-6 can carry about 30 sonobuoys just forward of the arrestor hook.  Normal A-6 drop tanks could carry about 20 a piece so add a pair of them and you have a worthwhile load of 70.  This would still allowing for normal drop tanks and/or weaponry to be carried and longer range missions to be flown with the fuselage buoys only.  Versatility is always a good thing especially when it's fairly easy to implement.

[Diamondback]

Good idea, M.A.D.

Refinement: add-on the A-6F/EA-6A outer stations, put the sonobuoy pods out there, and you now have either two more torp stations or room for two more drop-tanks.

[dy031101]

Anotehr thought, how about a SV-22/SA-6B team?

I heard that, prior to their retirement, the S-3 can still perform vectored attack against submarines despite losing its own ASW sensors.

How of an idea would it have been to allow attack aircraft (A-6F and/or navalized A-7F, those kinds) to do the same, vectored by dedicated ASW aircraft (I suppose it will have to be at least, as you suggested, the SV-22)?

[GTX_Admin]

Reportedly, Israel wanted to acquire the A-6 back in the '60s but were not allowed to.  However in the whiffverse...

[Daryl J.]

Royal Norwegian Air Force

[Daryl J.]

Reportedly, Israel wanted to acquire the A-6 back in the '60s but were not allowed to.  However in the whiffverse...

These would have been which variant?

[GTX_Admin]

Given it was 1966, it would have been the A-6A.

[Daryl J.]

Norwegian EA-6A painted up in, say for example, grey and white wrap around but rather than HARMs on pylons, use an antishipping/anti-radiation missile based on something like the Storm Shadow for a modern machine or Penguin for 15-20 years earlier or something such.

[Diamondback]

Stupid question, and I'm throwing a real Hail Mary here, but... anyone out there have any leads for data sources on the EA-6B VEP alterations? I've seen a list of changes, but it's not very detailed, and none of the few photos I've seen are exactly conducive to designing conversion parts from.

No need to link to Wikipedia, already read that article long ago. :)

[elmayerle]

VEP?  That's not an acronym I can remember seeing before.

[Diamondback]

Evan, VEP was 158542 and 547's aerodynamic improvements in the ADVCAP program, the strakes, 18" fin extension, etc.

These two photos are about all I've found...
158542. Vehicle Enhancement Program (VEP). After the program was canceled, three experimental Prowlers, were mothballed until 1999. The aircraft were reassembled creating a single aircraft, b/n 158542, which the Navy dubbed "FrankenProwler".
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EA-6B_AIP.jpg

[elmayerle]

Ah, I remember seeing something about that in AvWeek along with some drawings of the changes, but I can't say when that was.  Wasn't that also supposed to get the new composite wing that Boeing-Wichita was developing?  I understand that was cancelled because the stiffer structure transferred far more loads into the fuselage than the original wing and the fuselage couldn't handle them.

I keep thinking that this plus the A-6F engine fit would make for a very nice EA-6 variant.  I know that one reason teh A-6F was cancelled is that the USN wanted to get out of the agreement to have P&W manufacture F404s; it seems they managed a unique feat, the first F404 ever to stall.  The differences between the P&W and GE manufacturing processes and procedures was apparently enough.

[Diamondback]

Evan, the official version is "ADVCAP was killed by budget despite being a far superior configuration." Don't seem to recall anything about the Wichita wing...

The build I'm looking for this for is one I've already discussed, a hybrid ADVCAP/A-6F fitted with hybrid AVEN/LOAN afterburners--not for speed, but for reduced takeoff length, going back to the original A2F sorta-STOL concept, and improved maneuverability.

[elmayerle]

How about using a pair of 1/48 Harrier aft nozzles on a 1/72 EA-6B/  Not as "sexy", I'll admit, as a pair of AVEN?LOAN nozzles, but functional.  Alternatively, use a pair of 1/48 AV-8B "zero-scraf" front nozzles and modify each to represent a variable 2-D con-di nozzle rather than a fixed rectangluar nozzle.  You could even add signature reduction shaping to it.

[GTX_Admin]

Alternatively, use a pair of 1/48 AV-8B "zero-scraf" front nozzles and modify each to represent a variable 2-D con-di nozzle rather than a fixed rectangluar nozzle. 

I like this idea.

[Old Wombat]

... AVEN/LOAN nozzles ... AV-8B "zero-scraf" front nozzles ... variable 2-D con-di nozzle ...

Wha'?

Sorry, but my neural acronym recognition files are corrupted, at best, so could someone, please, explain these terms to me so I can follow what's going on here? On account of I like the (E)A-6 & Harrier/AV-8 but haven't actually followed their development all that closely.

:)

Guy

[Diamondback]

AVEN = Axisymmetrical Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle
LOAN = Low Observable Axisymmetrical Nozzle
Con/Di = Convergent/Divergent (F-22 style)

Part of why I was thinking "round burner" was that'd just mean having to find one the right size to stick on the end of the existing tailpipe, LOL. Easy Way Every Time, that's me...

[Old Wombat]

Thanks, Diamondback!

:)

Guy

[GTX_Admin]

And the "zero scarf" nozzles are these from the front of the AV-8B series:

[Old Wombat]

OK, "zero-scarf" is still a bit of a mystery but I think, from what I've been able to discover, that it is the squared-off, flat-ended nozzle of the later Harriers, as opposed to the nozzles of early Harriers, which angle back towards the fuselage ("scarfed").

:)

Guy

[kitnut617]

And the "zero scarf" nozzles are these from the front of the AV-8B series:

Handy things they are --- what I'm using on my Sunderland Turbo-prop  (with a slight sanding of the glueing surfaces to get the exit area down to size)

[jcf]

OK, "zero-scarf" is still a bit of a mystery but I think, from what I've been able to discover, that it is the squared-off, flat-ended nozzle of the later Harriers, as opposed to the nozzles of early Harriers, which angle back towards the fuselage ("scarfed").

:)

Guy

A scarf or scarph is an angled cut, most commonly used in reference to joinery.

IMHO the term zero-scarf is made up nonsense, but I guess in the lingo driven
world of the military and military aerospace engineering it sounds sexier
than 'box-nozzle'.