Author Topic: 1/35 Wheeled M113 DONE  (Read 1664 times)

Offline Frank3k

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1/35 Wheeled M113 DONE
« on: August 23, 2021, 08:24:19 AM »
This project has been rattling in my skull for a few years, like a BB in a tin can. Jeff has been kind enough to send me a LAV-25 (which should arrive mid-week), so I thought I'd get the plan rolling before then, because this feels like a long term project.

For the M113, I'm not lacking in parts - I have a hull and some parts Bill sent me, plus I have an old Tamiya M113 in addition to many other M113 kits.

I found some 3-views of the M113 and Lav-25, scaled them to match, then did a quick transplant. The good news is that all 6 wheels fit. The bad news is that this is going to be one ugly vehicle:



Time to start collecting parts!

« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 09:07:00 AM by Frank3k »

Offline apophenia

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 10:53:24 AM »
Frank: A couple of very rough ideas.

1: Leave the M113 hull as is and shorten the LAV hull by eliminating the front pair of wheels. The outcome would be AVGP-like but with a smaller gap between steering and non-steering wheel sets.

Or, since you mention having a few M113 kits ...

2: Extend the M113 hull to MTVL length (ie: long enough to insert another set of M113 roadwheels). That would allow to better fit the full-length LAV-25 lower hull and suspension.
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2021, 05:35:32 PM »
Yes a bit ugly.
I suppose the Alvis Stalwart profile looks pretty much the same though with its 6 Wheels

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2021, 12:28:18 AM »
2: Extend the M113 hull to MTVL length (ie: long enough to insert another set of M113 roadwheels). That would allow to better fit the full-length LAV-25 lower hull and suspension.

I think this looks better. I'll cut a hull and print an ABS extension (last time I cut an M113 hull, it took straight sprue sections and a couple of layers of styrene sheet to connect the sections).

Brian - I like the Stalwart. My original drawing reminded me of the squished JGSDF Type 87 Recon vehicle.

Offline apophenia

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2021, 12:35:38 AM »
I like the look of the Stalwart too. If you had two LAV-25 kits, you could go skid-steer  :smiley:

... (last time I cut an M113 hull, it took straight sprue sections and a couple of layers of styrene sheet to connect the sections).

If only the RW MTVL hull extensions had gone so smoothly  ;D
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Offline Ramba

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2021, 01:33:31 AM »
Cool idea! Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2021, 01:36:15 AM »
I like its look
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2021, 11:27:37 AM »
<...> The bad news is that this is going to be one ugly vehicle:



Nah, not ugly. It's got plenty of character!  ;)
I kinda like the ugly version best. It looks like a wheeled M113, while the other versions look more like boxy LAVs. If that makes any sense.  ;D
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 02:28:31 PM »


Gotta say I prefer this version, too.

Obviously you're going to have to bring some LAV influence into the design (wheel arches for the front steering wheels [unless it's a huge skid-steer vehicle], space for the all-wheel drive train, suspension, etc.) but, I think, you really have to try to keep the classic M113 look, at the front & rear especially.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Story

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 04:12:37 PM »
This seems like a viable post-apocalypse entry, with the right backstory.

In the TWLIGHT 2000 timeline, the 40th Infantry Division (California Army National Guard) was mobilized and deployed overseas in 1997. For State Missions, they were backfilled by the California State Military Reserve (https://military.wikia.org/wiki/California_State_Military_Reserve).

Since the LAV-25 was primarily a USMC thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAV-25), this could be as simple as a gate-guard M113 (from some CAARNG Armory) mating with LAV-25 spare parts from a warehouse.

Add California colors to suit.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 10:50:39 PM by Story »

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2021, 11:57:32 AM »
I'll start measuring in detail soon, but the ESCI Lav-25 lower hull with is almost identical to the Tamiya (and therefore all the clones) M113 hull. I'll have to do surgery to the M113 any way I go.

Story - I plan on using the California Republic state flag on a build - might as well make it this one.

Offline Gingie

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2021, 04:07:56 AM »
And, when you are done putting a M113 on a LAV, you can use the leftover bits for this!  :-)  Note I had to extend the 113 to fit the upper AVGP hull.

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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2021, 03:29:29 PM »
That looks damned good, too, Gingie! 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2021, 11:14:11 AM »
I’ve got a bunch of Bradley wheels and tracks that would work for that!

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2021, 01:11:28 PM »
Yeah, I think I'm keeping the rest of the LAV-25 kit to make something like this.

Offline Story

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2021, 07:12:34 AM »
Since Frank's firing up everyone's imaginations as we head into colder weather, I'll remind y'all that I've got a pile of stuff.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9083.0
See something you need?
Talk to me, let's make a deal-deal.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2021, 10:45:33 AM »
Some minor progress. I decided it would be easier to cut the straight sides of the M113 hull out of sheet styrene rather than cut an M113 hull apart. So I made a stretch version of the M113 sides out of cardboard and made the front follow the angles at the front of the LAV-25 lower hull. Pardon the tape:





This quick mock-up shows that the lengthened M113 hull on the LAV-25 would just look like a LAV-25 with vertical sides.

Next, I added four LAV-25 wheels on one side and it looks OK:



3 wheels slightly less so:



I think it would be easier to use an M113 length upper hull (cut from styrene) and M113 roof (and other parts) on the lower LAV-25 hull, with the rear of the lower hull cut to length (but still an 8 wheeled vehicle).

The two remaining options would be:

1 - keep the front angled bow of the LAV-25 and have the M113 sides stop at the first inward plate (similar to the first two pictures)
2 - cut the lower hull just forward of the wheel arches and use the existing M113 front parts.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 10:47:57 AM by Frank3k »

Offline Steve Blazo

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2021, 10:15:56 PM »
IMHO option 2 would be better, option 1 looks to much like a M1126 Stryker. Just my two cents.
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2021, 10:58:17 PM »
And another vote for Option 2.

As Steve said, Option 1 would end up looking too much like a LAV/Stryker to warrant the "Wheeled M113" title.


Now, if it was me, I'd shorten the LAV lower by about 1cm (35cm/14" RW) between the 2nd & 3rd set of wheels, & extend the M113 upper by about the same (just behind the commander's cupola is a good spot), blending the LAV lower into the M113 upper to finish off.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2021, 11:52:49 PM »
Thanks, Steve, Guy - point taken since I'll be using Stryker wheels for the final build.

Guy - you mean eliminating the rear set of steerable wheels and closing the gap? I think the rear of the LAV-25 hull has to be shortened as well, otherwise the cut will leave a huge overhang past the rearmost wheels.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2021, 12:46:54 AM »
Ah, actually, no. Sorry, Frank! :-[

My memory was that there was a sufficient gap between those wheel sets to do that; Your question made me realise that I was thinking of a shortened 4x4 LAV that I built some time ago (shout out to apophenia, who put the idea out there) probably combined with the butchery I conducted on several Strykers even earlier.

Under those circumstances, I'd just extend the M113 upper hull. Multiple ways that can be done; easiest is, as you suggested, making your own hull sides from styrene sheet. A bit trickier is extending the upper hull but there are a few lines that can be done (immediately behind the commander's cupola, immediately behind the driver's hatch & the rear deck behind the upper hatch (a combo of all three would look more balanced).

Either way, I think keeping the general form of the upper hull as the primary form is the most important thing.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2021, 02:31:39 AM »
@Frank - I like the simplicity of retaining the M113 hull and adapting it to accommodate three or four wheels per side.  The other options are appealing but that will mean adding more complexity to the project. 
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Offline Gingie

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2021, 08:51:47 AM »
Option 2, but with the 3 wheels evenly spaced.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2021, 01:12:52 AM »
I decided to go with 8 wheels, using the Trumpeter LAV-25 wheels which are thicker than the kit's wheels:



With an M113 top:



Nose is long; I have to trim the top a bit and eventually add the bow plate:



Adding the M113 rear was pretty easy and took very few mods:



I used some M113 (I believe) wheel backs to mate to the Trumpeter hubs. It was easier than trying to drill holes to match. The M113 wheels fit the LAV-25 well with just minimal trimming. I used wires to make the two front wheels movable. The track width is pretty wide now; I'll need to add side panels or shorten the wheel mounts to reduce the track width:




While it looks OK, the new vehicle looks (and is) very large compared to a stock M113. I shortened it in a graphics program to roughly match the length of an M113:



I'm still debating the change. I found an M113 hull that I had already spilt a while ago, so I can just replace the sides and trim the LAV-25 lower hull to match, or just cut new sides to match.. The longer white sides can be used on a lengthened M113 project.
This is a length comparison:



« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 01:21:07 AM by Frank3k »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 1/35 Wheeled M113
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2021, 01:56:55 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.