Modelling > Scenarios
No F-35 - play nicely!!
ScranJ51:
Interesting question.
I was involved (somewhat) with AIR 6000, even going overseas to talk to some of the "options".
One issue we found with the Typhoon at the time (I'm talking 2003 here) was the lack of capability of the early tranches of the aircraft. It wasn't going to be until Tranche 3 or so where you had a reasonable air to ground option. That didn't sit well (but see other considerations below).
The visit to Dassault was interesting, and I think Rafale was shaping as an interesting option. The company were about to set up an office in Canberra, and the Dassault "Rep" arrived in Canberra the day the JSF decision was announced. One of the interesting points was that, at that stage, the French were planning on flying a mix of Rafale's - in that a "normal" formation would be a single seater and a dual - the idea being the extra set of eyes/brain in the second aircraft allowed some sorting of the bigger picture.
One option that AIR 6000 looked at (at that time) was the mix between the aircraft and weapons. I remember an interesting discussion where a purchase of missiles (such as Storm Shadow) would be "fired" out of canisters dropped out the back of something like a C-130. So, you would fly the attack sortie in the C-130, launching from long range, then return to base, take out the missile canisters and replace them with humanitarian aid so you could go repair the havoc you had just caused your defeated enemy!
One of the other interesting discussions was JASSM on P-3's. Launch out of Darwin, disappear over the ocean and fired from the middle of nowhere against known targets (think about it 8).
Also had an briefing by the US on future air weapons and where things might go. (sorry - can't share, it was classified!! ;))
I also remember seeing some promotional material about the SU-27 sitting around in Capability Development - but I doubt if we would ever seriously have considered that option.
I'm not sure if the US will ever consider release of F-22 to anyone - the aircraft is supposedly the "Silver Bullet" - why would you ever let anyone else have it. Having been to Oahu a couple of times and watched them out of Hickham - amazing. Interestingly, in the TALISMAN SABRE series of exercises, the US would NEVER let an F-22 be shot down - it was always an in-flight emergency that bought one down.
On the Super Hornet issue, I was involved in writing the Hornet and F-111 End of life-of-type papers for a major Committee (think about it) and purchase of Super Hornets was never considered until the F-35 started to get delayed (back in 2003 the plan was IOC in 2015!!!) and I was out of Investment Analysis (IA - where I served as an RAAF Officer) before briefly being courted to come back and help write the Super Hornet proposal because of my IA background (didn't get the gig!!!) after my time in HQAST/HQJOC and my return to Strategy Group.
One question that was never answered ( and seldom asked) is what is the bombing capability of the F-22? Bit like the Tomcat - "not a pound for air to ground" - but turned out to be a reasonable bomber.
Cheers
GTX_Admin:
--- Quote from: ScranJ51 on October 15, 2020, 04:51:58 PM ---One option that AIR 6000 looked at (at that time) was the mix between the aircraft and weapons. I remember an interesting discussion where a purchase of missiles (such as Storm Shadow) would be "fired" out of canisters dropped out the back of something like a C-130. So, you would fly the attack sortie in the C-130, launching from long range, then return to base, take out the missile canisters and replace them with humanitarian aid so you could go repair the havoc you had just caused your defeated enemy!
One of the other interesting discussions was JASSM on P-3's. Launch out of Darwin, disappear over the ocean and fired from the middle of nowhere against known targets (think about it 8).
--- End quote ---
Indeed - the idea was kicked around with the RAF FOAS requirements as well. Basically separate the strike mission from the fighter mission - bit like the old Transport Bombers of the '20s/'30s:
One could possibly even take it a step further and have an AEW&C aircraft either loaded with long range air-to-air missiles or possibly accompanied by a transport equipped with such to take care of the air-defence role. Maybe not sexy but when one looks objectively at it and realises that you are after an end effect it does raise eyebrows.
If it wasn't already heavy, one might even consider the likes of a E-7 Wedgetail combined with a P-8 Poseidon - a "F-9" perhaps ;) whereby you have a E-7 with the Bomb bay loaded with something like MBDA Meteors...
--- Quote from: ScranJ51 on October 15, 2020, 04:51:58 PM ---One question that was never answered ( and seldom asked) is what is the bombing capability of the F-22? Bit like the Tomcat - "not a pound for air to ground" - but turned out to be a reasonable bomber.
--- End quote ---
It was touched upon back between 2002 and 2005 when it was briefly referred to as the F/A-22. You can still find diagrams such as this around showing bomb capabilities:
sanka:
F-16XL, with the right engine replacement (F110-129) accidentally can supercruise. I don't see a F-15 do that. Yes please..
And upgraded A-10's with modern avionics. (glass cocpit)
Every plane for it own role, wich works way better then a jack of all trades..
elmayerle:
--- Quote from: sanka on October 18, 2020, 08:44:29 PM ---F-16XL, with the right engine replacement (F110-129) accidentally can supercruise. I don't see a F-15 do that. Yes please..
And upgraded A-10's with modern avionics. (glass cocpit)
Every plane for it own role, wich works way better then a jack of all trades..
--- End quote ---
Why not go all the way with the F110-132 used in the F-16E/F aircraft. Better yet, develop the radical F-16 configuration that was offered to UAE, essentially a stretched F-16 fitted with a derivative of the F-22's wing. From what I understand, it had very definitely supercruise capability.
apophenia:
--- Quote from: elmayerle on October 19, 2020, 12:12:36 AM ---... Better yet, develop the radical F-16 configuration that was offered to UAE, essentially a stretched F-16 fitted with a derivative of the F-22's wing. From what I understand, it had very definitely supercruise capability.
--- End quote ---
For modelling purposes, maybe combine that F-22-winged F-16U with the 'diverterless supersonic inlet'?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version